Last night, at UFC 87, three things made themselves abundantly clear:
1- Brock Lesnar has evolved as a striker.
2- He has brought a WWE wrestling personality to the UFC
3- The Hooters across the street from the Target Center is a really bad place to watch the UFC fight.
Ignoring the first and third point for this article, it almost appeared as though Brock Lesnar is looking to become more than just a collegiate wrestler, he has also become more than an MMA fighter. He almost appears to be the UFC's newest heel (a professional wrestling term for "bad guy").
The evidence was there for all to see:
After the first round, as Lesnar stood from holding opponent Heath Herring in the turtle position, he pushed his battered and bleeding opponent in the back. He could have just stood up. He could have even helped him up. Perhaps next time he will hit his opponent with a folding chair.
- B/R Ticket Guide
Lesnar passed up chance after chance to take Herrings back, instead opting to hold a side control position, almost giving up a knee bar, and reign down shots the entire fight. Lesnar wasn't looking to end this fight, he was looking to punish someone and prove a point.
As the fight came to a close, Lesnar stood up, pointed and laughed at Herring. While it didn't appear that he spoke any words, it would have made sense if Lesnar had also uttered, " Niener, niener, niener, you're a big, fat wiener."
As the fight ended, Lesnar pretended to lasso, then reel in his opponent. The confusing mixed of rodeo and fishing seemed laughable and over the top (a la Tito Ortiz, or the WWE).
In the post fight interview, Lesnar largely ignored the questions by commentator Joe Rogan, opting to yell and holler to the supportive local fans words to motivation and, well... Jesse Ventura-esque sentiment (the ex-wrestler, ex-actor, ex-governor, ex-sane person was also in attendance at the event).
It isn't clear whether this was something requested by the UFC or if Lesnar took it upon himself to put a little more drama into a sport involving blood and submissions, but it appears that the WWE has officially landed in the UFC, and Lesnar is the new heel.
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3 months ago
I think it was Brock's way of saying go to hell to the all the critics who pretty much dismissed him as being a sideshow. I bet he felt pissed off that a lot of fans simply didnt give him the credit he deserved as being any sort of legitimate threat in the UFC, so I think he kinda ran with the whole thing.
Not to mention that Brock comes from not only a pro wrestling background, but a collegiate one as well. Some of the best collegiate wrestlers are guys that are known for being assholes(kurt angle, koscheck, lesnar, etc.) You could even throw Matt Hughes in there, he has been called arrogant by many a foe and fan alike.
Add to that the pressure that had to be mounting on Brock's shoulders to succeed, and I think you get what transpired last night. Some fans will like it, some will hate it, but I bet you he just became must see tv last night, with both the win and his antics.
from 3 months ago
I kind of got that feeling to. It was a breath of relief for Dana White, the UFC in general and Lesnar in regards to his critics. He went out. Bashed on Herring and controlled the entire fight. I am just a little confused by his attitude.
I have no problem with a fighter that shows some attitude, it is a violent sport after all, but there is attitude, then there is overdoing it.
Of course, this was his first real win and in front of the hometown crowd. Perhaps a little leeway is due.
3 months ago
I think Brock is part dick and part show man. I'm sure he only got that excited at the end to show-up the critics but the pushing and punishing was the asshole in him. Even fighters like Wandy and Rampage would rather beat a guy up then submit them.
from 3 months ago
Well put, I agree.
from 3 months ago
Tito is one guy that is definitively known for trying to punish people like that, too.
Good article but I also really like the commentary that Bryan and Jaime added to it.
from 3 months ago
I just hope that if Brock fighters either Minotauro or Mir (again) he doesn't look to control, he needs to finish the fight.
I wonder if there was another reason he didn't take Herrings back at all.
3 months ago
The best line Ive ever heard leading up to a fight was an old Tito line. He said something to the gist of that when guys lose fights by submission they don't feel bad because anyone can get caught. He said when you get taken down and pounded on then you know that a guy just beat your ass.
I agree 150%. There has to be a distinct difference between the way Herring feels today and the way say ummmm MacDonald feels today. I bet MacDonald is telling himself I can beat Maia if I just do this or this next time, but Herring has to know there is no way hes beating Lesnar, ever.
from 3 months ago
Excellent point. He definitely sent a message and whomever he fights next (possibly Kongo?) is going to have some sleepless nights leading up to it.
from 3 months ago
for i think it was brocks idea the whole time get herring down and beat him up and thats just what he did it wasnt the most impressive win ever but i think he proved his point
from 3 months ago
That's one of the most well-said points I've read in any of these blogs.
3 months ago
I was hoping Lesnar would win going into last night. after watching the Mir fight I wanted to see what he could do, and last night he completely dominated Herring. However, after the pushing, laughing, lassoing, talking about riding a horse or some stupid shit like that, I really want to see something else... I want to see someone beat the living shit out of him now. Too bad I can't think of a heavyweight that can punish him like that in the ufc...
from 3 months ago
I bet that's exactly how Lesnar wants you to feel, so you will tune in and wait for it to happen.
from 3 months ago
Maybe Kongo? Maybe.
However, the real test is still his primary (and possibly only) weakness: jiu-jitsu. If Minotauro and Mir weren't tied up with The Ultimate Fighter right now I could see a showdown in the near future.
from 3 months ago
I say give him Kongo, and lets see from there. Developing your jits game really takes time, hell ive been training a year and a half and I have barely a clue. Maybe a Verdum or a Gonzaga after that? IF Mir loses than a rematch soon after and then we could talk title shot. Assuming these are all wins, of course.
Ill tell you one thing, If Randy came back to the UFC right now, Brock would beat him down something the likes of which would make children and the elderly cry.
from 3 months ago
O yeah! Werdum! I forgot about him. Can't say why. Werdum is the next logical opponent for Lesnar, even more so than Kongo imo. They could legitimately have a #1 contender match to face the winner of the Big Nog/Mir fight. Lesnar would probably win but because Werdum is bigger and more skilled in jitz (and is on a longer win streak -- and hasn't just lost to the guy Lesnar destroyed) he's a more dangerous opponent for Lesnar.
Let Kongo fight Cain Velasquez next and see if he thinks he wasted his time when it's all over. Whoever wins that fight (which I would really struggle to predict a winner in) would be really close to a title shot. I want to see Carwin move up the ranks with these guys too.
from 3 months ago
P.S. I forgot Werdum already has his next fight set up and if he wins it he's supposed to get a title shot. But I heard Lesnar's going to fight Gonzaga next, which is the next best matchup for Lesnar.
3 months ago
Lesnar proved he is a force to be reckoned with, however the next UFC he fights in, I may not order simply because I can not watch a display of WWE like antics again. Lesnar's childish behavior does not belong in MMA (maybe EliteXC).
from 3 months ago
Exactly, being a "heel" might work in WWE or EliteXC, but it turns me away. Dana should talk to him about it, that isn't UFC style.
3 months ago
I totally agree, I hated seeing that stuff, while my friends laughed, I hated seeing him act so classless... he won 1 fight which he ended up taking to the judges because he lacked the finish. I am not all that impressed by him, He is just big and strong.
Classless for sure it seemed...
3 months ago
And, in my article i talked about Kongo agaisnt Lesnar... I think that is a great match up, Kongo is big and strong, and hungry! Lets see Lesnar lay on top of him for an entire match.
I think Kongo is the most logical opponent for him next, except Lesnar is much like bisping, he will have an easy walk because he is Dana's golden boy and brings in the money and new fans. So I doubt he will fight either Kongo OR Werdum... or anyone even remotely as skilled as them...
from 3 months ago
Lesnar just fought Herring.
Herring beat Kongo.
Therefore Herring is more skilled than Kongo.
Therefore Lesnar has already fought fighters more skilled than Kongo.
Therefore to say that Dana will baby Lesnar and thus Lesnar won't fight anyone as skilled as Kongo or Werdum is a VERY weak argument.
Promoting a fight against someone like Coleman (a known name but someone who doesn't pose a true threat to Lesnar) won't work again because people will want Lesnar to fight top opponents. More importantly, Lesnar wants to fight the best guys out there and that affects matchmaking as well.
from 3 months ago
Btw Lesnar could definitely lay on top of Kongo for an entire match. Kongo is still the guy that couldn't defend take downs from Carmelo Marrero and Assuerio Silva -- I don't care how much he has improved since -- that tells me that he won't be able to handle Lesnar.
3 months ago
First off, anyone that badmouths lesnar is just fueling him. Thats why i love him as a fighter. Critics badmouth him, as well thousands of other fight fans all because he was in the WWE. The past is the past, when someone steps into the octagon they mean business. Brock Lesnar was disrespected and underestimated by critics, fans, and most importantly fellow ufc fighters. Heath Herring ran his mouth and made the fight personal from the start. Good job Heath, like i said your just fueling him. Lesnar could have very easily ended that fight in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round. But he didnt, he set an example with Herring, dominated him for 15 minutes, and then goes ahead and makes fun of Heath in front of a sell-out crown. Brock Lesnar showed no emotion in any other fight because he meant business from the start, and people overlooked that. Herring was the one with no class, he made it personal from the beginning for no reason what-so-ever. Herring talked the smack before the fight, but Lesnar did after the fight.....AS WELL AS DURING THE FIGHT. No fighter is going to show class if they arent respected. Thats all I feel like coming up with after hearing out everyones opinions, I thought some were well thought of (Robert), and i thought some were just plain ignorant. If anyone doesnt like my opinion, go ahead and submit one because i would be more than happy to counter it with something more intelligent.
For anyone that went ahead and read this opinion, thanks, whether you agree or not. You'l be hearing from me again.
from 3 months ago
Don't you have a WWE PPV to watch or something?
1. "he showed no emotion"? He almsot cried after losing to Mir.
2. Many fighters show class when they're not respected, that's a basic thing learned from most martial arts. Respect...
And don't argue that your comments are more intelligent until you learn the difference between your and you're, or until you find the shift key when you type I.
from 3 months ago
His actions are excusable because Herring talked shit?? I don't think there's ever been a PPV event that didn't have atleast one match-up where one or two of the guys are bad mouthing eachother. When Anderson Silva fought Chris Leben he felt that Leben had disrespected him in what he said pre-fight, but he did nothing that was disrespectful back, physically or verbally. He knocked him out in the first round, and didn't laugh at his opponent or taunt him in anyway. He proved he was better than that, whereas Brock Lesnar went beyond the realm of trash talking when he pushed Herring as they stood up after the first round. Many people did critisize him and did not give him respect, and rather then earning respect with a victory over Herring he has gotten less. Did you watch St Pierre and Fitch after their fight?? That is what earns respect, not Lesnars bullshit antics.
3 months ago
DAMN
3 months ago
Lesnar's striking needs to be respected by every UFC heavy weight. For one he did some ridiculous damage with one punch from his canned ham sized fist (size XXXXL according to Rogan). Secondly and more importantly he set up that punch beautifully. He faked a takedown, dropped his level getting Herring to drop his hands and then he exploded with that right. That strike catches just about any competitor off guard and nicely sets up the rest of the fight.
If Lesnar hadn't landed that punch Herring wouldn't have been so gun shy of taking more damage when he was on the ground. Brock used his size and strength to keep Herring down because the only way Herring was going to escape was to leave himself open to strikes as he scrambled to his feet.
The post fight antics I could do without but bad guys do sell tickets and PPVs so maybe Lesnar is smarter than we think. The next fights that make sense would either be Kongo, Coleman, or Eilers. The UFC is still grooming Carwin & Velasquez so those two are out. Also I don't think Werdum would take a fight against Brock since hes the next likely contender for the belt after Mir. It'll be interesting to see who they put against him next.
from 3 months ago
Doh. I forgot that Werdum gets a title shot if he wins his next fight. And it's against some "Junior" guy that I had never heard of before. So I guess Lesnar will probably fight Kongo next... unless they find someone else in the woodworks.
from 3 months ago
It will be interesting to see what kind of personality emerges out of Lesnar as he gains more confidence and wins. Maybe he'll be the bad guy that everyone loves to hate.
Also its ironic that Heath Herring started his fight out in UFC 82 against Cheick Kongo by throwing an immediate punch to Kongo's jaw which set the tone for that entire fight. Then Brock shows up in UFC 87 and does the exact same thing to Herring.
3 months ago
I'd love to see Brock Lesnar and Kimbo go at it.
3 months ago
I think that if Brock was comfortable enough with jiu jitsu, he would've taken Herring's back and choked him out. But think of it from his perspective. He's a wrestler. And where is the most uncomfortable place to be for a wrestler? On his back.
I think what he was worried about was going for a choke, being maneuvered out of it and losing his top position. It's entirely instinctual for a wrestler do anything and everything to stay off his back.
As for the extra curricular activity? That's just Brock trying to get over.
from 3 months ago
This is a good point, i think fighters always resort to their strongest skill set until they become better in other areas. But some stay with what they like and never show anything else like Chuck Liddell, I cant remember a fight where he actually submits anyone, it seems like he got good at striking and never tried anything else. it will be interesting to see if Lesnar picks a style like ground and pound or simply just bash and smash.
from 3 months ago
That the thing, though. Lesnar has been working his jits hard, training with a BJJ black belt his own size in “Comprido” Rodrigo Medeiros. I think he has the game, he just wanted to prove a point by beating Herring senseless.
3 months ago
I don't think lesnars antics were anything new. This stuff happens at every event. Bj is licking blood, thiago's doing the throat slash, etc... We tolerate it from those guys so lesnar should be no different. I don't expect this from him going forward. I think he just wanted to give a giant f you to all his critics.
I expect werdum to get the next shot if he wins at ufc 90. He's earned it. Lesnar/kongo sounds good. Lesnar should win that. He's only going to struggle w/ jitz guys.
3 months ago
What was Lesnar's weight/height compared to Herring? I feel like Lesnar outweighed him by ALOT. Am I wrong?
from 3 months ago
They both had to weigh in at 265 or under. Lesnar was 265 on the dot while Herring was 250. Obviously, as you could tell, Lesnar was probably 285 in the cage after he put weight back on. I'm not sure how much he outweighed Herring when they were in the cage together, but I'd beat at least 20 pounds.
from 3 months ago
that's the problem with guys like Vera fighting at heavyweight. While he might have a better overall skill set than Brock Lesnar, can you really see him coming into the octagon at 225 and doing anything other than getting slammed and pounded on by Brock?
guys that can make 205 probably should, esp with guys like Brock that can cut to 265 and have the type of power and speed he has.
from 3 months ago
Exactly Bryan. That's also why I feel like there should be a 220 (or 225) pound division too. The range of weight in heavyweight just seems to be too much in MMA -- it's not like boxing.
I'm betting Lesnar was at least 280. He probably walks around at 295-300 when before he cuts weight. Herring was probably about 255ish I suppose.
from 3 months ago
I totally agree. It has bothered me for a long time that there is such a huge weight gap amongst the heavyweights. I would really like to see a heavy and super heavyweight division.
3 months ago
Thats what im trying to say here. I almost felt bad watching the fight, it was so mis-matched.
Dont get me wrong, I love Brock but he literally just sat on Herring the whole fight. MMA has got to do something about weight I feel. Stop throwing 50lb mismatches in the ring.
Everyone knows that I love Kimbo to death, my favorite fighter. But the reality of it is, Kimbo would get killed by most heavyweights, simply because they outweigh him by so much.
Now all the Fedor fans before I smash my keyboard over your head, Fedor is not human. No matter who he fights, he will win, end of story. Done.
3 months ago
Thats what im trying to say here. I almost felt bad watching the fight, it was so mis-matched.
Dont get me wrong, I love Brock but he literally just sat on Herring the whole fight. MMA has got to do something about weight I feel. Stop throwing 50lb mismatches in the ring.
Everyone knows that I love Kimbo to death, my favorite fighter. But the reality of it is, Kimbo would get killed by most heavyweights, simply because they outweigh him by so much.
Now all the Fedor fans before I smash my keyboard over your head, Fedor is not human. No matter who he fights, he will win, end of story. Done.
from 3 months ago
where was there a 50 lb mismatch? Herring knew exactly what he was getting himself into. Unless they make a super heavyweight division Brock will be in the heavyweight division. There are barely enough good heavys out there to begin with so dont hold your breath for that one.
Every time I read a guy like Ryan's comment I want to throw up. If it was Fedor fighting Brock it would have been an even bigger weight mismatch but nobody would be saying it was a mismatch. Not to mention that nobody would be saying anything if Brock would have lost.
Simply put if you put all of Brock's attributes into a guy that weighed in at 250 so the weight was even, he might have been a bit quicker, and still would have dispatched of Herring with ease.
Guys that know the fight game, and Ryan is not one of them, know when size matters in fights. Case in point the Vera-Sylvia fight. If they were the same size, Vera would have been able to get Sylvia to the ground. He was obviously more skilled but couldn't deal with the size.
from 3 months ago
I am not really sure what you are trying to say. I pretty much agree with all of the points you make. I agree with the comment about the amount of “good heavies” in the UFC right now. I think you took my Fedor comment the totally wrong way. I know that if I didn’t throw a Fedor line in there, all the Fedor crazies would be on my ass. So you just tell them that Fedor will always win no matter who he fights and the post is not flooded with garbage.
Yes you put all the attributes of Lesnar into a 250 pound man; the fight would have been interesting. Yes I still think that he would have dispatched of Herring with ease, but the fight would have been a lot more interesting to watch.
Now I was just informed by Bryan Tafford that unless you are wearing a TAPOUT shirt standing in front of a huge fathead poster, you don’t know anything about the fight game. Don’t worry I’m ordering both now.
from about 1 month ago
I realize this is an old post, but I'm just reading it, so bear with me. Herring is 250lbs. Lesnar weighed in at 265lbs. So, there's definitely not a 50lbs. mismatch going on. Yes, Brock cuts weight to get to 265, but that also involves the physically stressful process of losing water weight the day before a fight. At the very most, Lesnar may have entered the ring at 280 and a little worse for wear for cutting so much. As far as Kimbo being a "little guy", he weighs 235lbs. He also just got ktfo by a dude weighing a whopping 205. Couture is 228 and, in the opinion of many, the second-best heavyweight in the world. Ergo, I think that selling the little guys short is a mistake. Afterall, Bob Sapp wasn't exactly an unstoppable force.
That being said, I'd definitely watch fights in a 205 to 225 weight class. Don't see anything wrong with it. 206 or 208 (which is technically a HW) is not a big enough dude to be fighting Lesnar. Unless it's Lyoto Machida. He'd probably take Lesnar down, but that's a different story altogether.
3 months ago
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/46771-a-day-in-the-life-of-bruce-buffer
3 months ago
I would love to see Lesner against Gonzaga next. I don't think the UFC will put him against Kongo, even though I think it would be a good match, because he just beat the guy that beat Kongo(Herring). Some other logical choices would be Carwin, although like somebody else said the UFC is grooming him right now, or maybe Werdum even though I don't think he deserves it yet. I would love to see if Nogueira could submit Lesnar after taking a beating from him just like he always does, and he's submitted guys the same size as Lesnar before( Bob Sapp, Semmy Shilt, Zulu, Sylvia)
from 3 months ago
I think that would be a really good match-up. Something to showcase that he has learned to be more versatile on the ground.
from 3 months ago
I don't think they'll put him with pure jiu jitsu guys just yet. He'll probably fight Kongo, but that's because Coleman doesn't want him any longer, according to some stories I've read.
I think Carwin and Vasquez are being groomed for the future and putting them with Lesnar now would be a no win situation for Lesnar because he'd be fighting guys no one knows yet, who are deadly.
3 months ago
good point kyle..i totally agree with you.. Brock is the real deal.. hes been disrespected just because he came from WWE, they treated him like a joke.. that just made him punish and mock herring.. "I CAN SEE YOU NOW BROCK" hehehehe
3 months ago
I think POSSIBLY the reason Brock pointed and laughed is because at the end of the round Herring was really trying to get up and there was a little scramble. I almost wonder if it was Brock pointing at him like hey you were making me work a little bit there.
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