While centers may be the biggest and the strongest of the NBA giants, the supreme big men in the league today inhabit the power forward position.
The best power forwards are the most versatile specimens the NBA displays, with some exhibiting guard-like speed and leaping ability, some possessing powerful strength combined with ballerina-like footwork, and others demonstrating an uncanny combination of outside shooting, post moves, and rebounding prowess.
This list does not take into account a player’s future prospects or past salad days. The criteria is simple: Which NBA power forward is best suited to being an integral part of a championship team this year.
Due to the way some NBA lineups are presently constructed, a handful of potential power forwards will be asked to play different positions this year. For that reason, Rasheed Wallace, Al Jefferson, Udonis Haslem, Jermaine O’Neal, and Al Horford are listed as centers, while Lamar Odom, and Josh Smith are counted as small forwards,
No rookies made the list, as neither you nor I have seen them play in meaningful games against meaningful competition to know where they should be ranked.
Introduction aside, the list:
1) Tim Duncan—San Antonio Spurs
Though 32 years old, Duncan remains the standard by which current NBA big men are judged.
His post up game is exceptional, with superior footwork, balance, and upper-body strength allowing him to unleash an arsenal of precision post-up moves, ranging from quick spins, sweeping hooks, and powerful face-up drives, all capable of being executed with either hand, though he prefers his right hand from the left box.
Duncan’s face-up bankers have diminished in effectiveness, but still must be respected. He remains the premier passing big man in the NBA, as his court vision allows him to dissect double teams and find open cutters and spot-up shooters. He sets screens with earnestness, will never yield a loose ball, and is the second best rebounder in the game, aside from Dwight Howard.
What sets Duncan apart is his genius-level defensive IQ, as TD is constantly in perfect position on defense to close off whatever gap an opponent might have seen. Duncan only blocks shots as a last resort as his positioning consistently forces slashers to pass the ball, take difficult attempts, or pick up unnecessary charges.
Still, he can wait as long as possible for offensive players to shoot, allowing himself to defend his man an extra beat while still being in position to alter shots.
Duncan is not without his flaws. His ability to defend players who can turn-and-face is only average at best, as is his ability to pass after being double teamed on the move. Inconsistent free throw shooting has also been a thorn in his side.
Still, there are few players in the game, as talented, as smart, and as unselfish as Duncan, and nobody as consistently clutch in pressure situations.
2) Kevin Garnett—Boston Celtics
Garnett’s defensive strengths lie in his incredibly long wingspan that allows him to swallow up screens, front and three-quarter big men, and grab rebounds simply by being taller in a scrum. He gets real low on screens, forcing defenders on and endless journey to circumnavigate him. He’s a hard-working rebounder, and he’s one of the best jump shooters for his height (6-11) in NBA history.
However, Garnett isn’t exceptionally strong and can be pushed around by even the most modest of big men, especially on the offensive end. Garnett also has the sad tendency of not showing up in big moments of big games, riding on the coattails of Latrell Sprewell and Sam Cassell in 2004, and Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in 2008 to achieve his only playoff successes.
Honestly, Garnett is one of the top three role players of all time, but isn’t the all-everything superstar fans and lazy media members make him out to be.
3) Elton Brand—Philadelphia 76ers
It’s hard to accurately rank Brand because of his ruptured Achilles tendon, and the uncertainty as to exactly what level he’ll be at when the season begins.
Before the injury, Brand was a ferocious post player, with an abundance of low post moves, a reliable short jumper, above-average passing and defensive skills, and the ability to rebound in traffic. In fact, until last season, Brand was the most feared post threat in the Western Conference not named Tim Duncan.
However, the injury questions, as well as the fact that Brand isn’t as gifted a perimeter defender as Garnett is leaves him the third spot unless he proves he is back to his 2006 playoff form.
4) David West—New Orleans Hornets
Underappreciated due to Chris Paul’s exploits, West is a triple-threat scorer—outstanding with his back to the basket, driving to the cup, and knocking down jumpers from 18-feet and in.
West is also an outstanding defender, a diligent rebounder, and a leader who sets examples for his teammates.
Powerful, explosive, and disciplined, West is one of the finest all-around players in the game.
5) Amare Stoudemire—Phoenix Suns
Stupendously athletic, Stoudemire may be faster than some NBA shooting guards. He gets his points by catching the ball at the elbow and blowing by stuck-in-quicksand defenders on hoopward drives. If his defender sags off, Amare’s mid-range jumper has developed to the point where it’s automatic if his feet are set.
Stoudemire can also curl off screens and hit jumpers, runs the floor like a gazelle, and is a freakish leaper, allowing him to block shots and corral rebounds most mortals could never reach.
With all that said, Stoudemire is one of the most immature players in the NBA, constantly griping with the media and fans alike about a perceived lack of respect.
This coming from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, with too upright a defensive stance, an appalling lack of judgment, a propensity to turn his head and lose sight of the ball, or his man—or both—and the unwillingness to improve those deficiencies. In fact, Stoudemire may be the only player in the NBA whose defense has gotten worse since his rookie year!
Plus, Stoudemire’s never learned how to box out, never accepted physical contact, and has always expected praise without putting in the work. He’s one of the most physically talented, yet unjustly celebrated players in the league.
6) Chris Bosh—Toronto Raptors
Bosh is soft, a below-average defender, a mediocre passer, a so-so rebounder, and all finesse.
What he does well is drive along the left baseline with his left hand to use his long strides and arms to gain space to flick in an assortment of nifty layups and hook shots.
Bosh can also hit jumpers out to 20-feet and will run the court looking to catch defenses before they set. If a defender is too short, or too slow, Bosh can put up prodigious numbers, but he’s really just an average NBA star.
- B/R Ticket Guide
7) Pau Gasol—Los Angeles Lakers
Like Bosh, Gasol is too soft, and too finesse to be a truly elite big man in the NBA. However, Gasol is an exceptional passer, especially out of the high post, and his presence will allow a team’s off-ball movement and halfcourt offense to proliferate if it can take advantage of his passing skills.
Gasol uses his length and an array of effective pump fakes to set up his hook shots and step-throughs. His length allows him to be an effective rebounder when not muscled away from the ball, and a useful defender against offensive players that lack explosion, or teams that lack spacing. Still, Gasol’s overall defense is worse than Bosh’s and drops him on the list.
8) Carlos Boozer—Utah Jazz
Boozer’s elbow jumpers are automatic when given space, his drives from the elbow are unstoppable when he can attack his defender without help arriving, and his assaults on the backboard are primal in their ferocity.
However, Boozer is too short and not athletic enough to be a good defender, and he becomes tentative against long defenders with help shadowing him. He’s a quality player, but he isn’t explosive enough to be elite.
9) Ron Artest—Houston Rockets
The premier wing defender in the NBA, Artest actually defends the post even better than he defends the perimeter. This is because of his inner psychological makeup of never yielding an inch, never giving less than his best efforts, and never conceding anything to anybody.
Artest is also a capable shooter, can drive with either hand, and is a respectable playmaker who generally looks to make the correct pass.
However, the same inner psyche that makes Artest such a tenacious defender, is wound too tight for him to function sanely. He needs the ball in his hands to be useful offensively, and if he doesn’t get the ball, he’ll self-destruct.
He’ll take bad shots when the mood pleases him, will feud with coaches and players who don’t adopt his overly rugged style, and is immune to attempts to coach him. Nobody else in the league is at risk for imploding and destroying locker room harmony more so than Artest is at any given moment.
10) Dirk Nowitzki—Dallas Mavericks
Slightly tougher now than a couple of years ago (but only at home), and a much more willing rebounder, Nowitzki is still, essentially, an oversized jump shooter.
Defenders who can get up in Dirk’s grill and move their feet neutralize Dirk’s ability to pull and shoot going left, and only the weakest of post defenders have difficulty pushing Dirk around near the shadow of the basket. Combined with the inability to rouse his troops when all the chips are on the table, and a complete lack of defense, Dirk barely cracks the Top Ten.
11) Shawn Marion—Miami Heat
Marion is a smart, athletic, forward who slashes to the rim like a blade, utilizing superior quickness and hops to excel in transition and in early offense. If undersized, Marion is a gutsy defender who’ll accept the responsibility of defending a team’s best player, and is as good at defending his own man as he is in coming over from the weak side to block a shot.
Because of a below average jumper, and a lack of size, Marion isn’t the type of player who can consistently get off a quality shot at the basket on a regular basket, therefore, he isn’t really a franchise player.
Also, he’s developed a reputation for grumbling in the locker room and for putting himself above his teammates. What else does it say when he desired to be traded from the first place Suns, to the going-nowhere Heat last season?
12) LaMarcus Aldridge—Portland Trail Blazers
A touch soft, Aldridge is a young, rising player with a soft right hook over his left shoulder, a feathery mid range jumper, and the ability to get low and move his feet on defense, allowing him to defend quicker, faster players along the perimeter.
As the number of years in the league and the muscles in his upper body increase, so too will his spot on the list.
13) Rashard Lewis—Orlando Magic
Lewis is a versatile player who adapts his game to the role his team needs him to perform. In Orlando, Lewis is a long-range bomber who spaces the floor so Hedo Turkoglu and Dwight Howard can operate one-on-one, and to make help defenders travel extra long journeys to tag the players they’re sent to double.
Besides being a prolific shooter, Lewis is a strong rebounder for a small forward miscast as a power forward, can post up, is a decent defender, and is a willing, if turnover prone, passer. He’s not worth the exorbitant contract Orlando gave him last summer, but perhaps the spacing he’s opened up for his teammates is.
14) Marcus Camby—Los Angeles Clippers
Camby is a test as to which fans and media members do their homework and watch basketball games, and which simply base their opinions by looking at box scores.
Camby’s athleticism allows him to outrace or outleap landlocked rebounders to loose balls, and he’s clearly a talented shot-blocker, but that’s where his positive attributes end.
Because Camby’s constantly drooling over shot-blocking opportunities, he often focuses all his defensive attention on potential paint penetrations, losing track of his own man under the basket. Also, he overreacts wildly to ball penetration, again, resulting in open looks for his primary defensive responsibility.
Camby won’t challenge shots he can’t block—which sounds like common sense, but in reality, it means that shots that can be altered if he closed out on a shooter hard, or threw his hands up in the shooter’s line-of-vision, never get altered, and a shooter can get comfortable even in Camby’s vicinity.
Camby could never defend anybody with the strength to attack his chest, he often gets outmuscled in rebounding scrums, and he takes an alarming number of bad shots for somebody with as limited an offensive game as he possesses.
His shot-blocking ability, and athleticism are certainly deserving of respect, but Camby is one of the game’s truly overrated players.
15) Antawn Jamison—Washington Wizards
A small forward in disguise, Jamison is a streaky scorer who gets his buckets with perimeter shooting, slashing, and the occasional fadeaway jumper in the paint. Jamison is a decent rebounder, but he can’t handle physicality, can’t defend, can’t pass, and can’t do much else besides score in streaks.
16) Antonio McDyess—Detroit Pistons
A smart, capable banger, McDyess’ mid-range jumper is automatic when given space, his individual defense is solid if unspectacular, and he plays better team defense in the playoffs than he does the regular season. McDyess is a terrific rebounder, screen setter, and role-player, allowing his four more talented Pistons teammates to excel in the spotlight, while still producing in ways invaluable to the team.
17) Jason Maxiell—Detroit Pistons
An explosive rebounder, defender, and finisher, Maxiell plays with unbridled energy and anger, which he channels into sudden changes in tempo for opponents to deal with. However, at only 6-7, taller forwards will always be able to excel against Maxiell’s lack of height, and his offensive game is limited to developing post moves, and finishing on broken plays.
18) David Lee—New York Knicks
One of the best pure rebounders in the NBA, and a strong finisher, Lee is a poor defender who can’t create his own offensive looks. Smart, talented, and athletic, as his defense improves, so will his ranking on the list.
19) Drew Gooden—Chicago Bulls
Gooden can knock down mid range jumpers, has strong face-up skills, can hit turnaround jumpers in the post, can play defense, and can rebound.
However, Gooden is mistake-prone, doesn’t pay attention to detail, and repeatedly botches defensive assignments.
He also tends to disappear in games, making him maddeningly inconsistent. Those are reasons why a player as versatile as Gooden has been mentioned in trade rumors his entire career.
20) Brandon Bass—Dallas Mavericks
Bass has prime-time athleticism, and a big-time baseline jumper which he can stretch out to 20 feet. He runs the floor with abandon, can defend small forwards, power forwards, and centers effectively, and is an explosive rebounder. All he needs to prosper in the league is continued playing time and experience.
21) Ben Wallace—Cleveland Cavaliers
Like a rusted wagon, Wallace is old, breaking down, and should be permanently left in the shed. He’s no longer the agile defensive force who’d beat his opponents before a play began by outworking them on the block, denying post position and subsequent entry passes.
Instead, the current Wallace incarnation isn’t quick enough or strong enough to ball deny, and he’s much slower and weaker than at any point in his career. He’s still slightly above average defensively, and he’ll still rebound, but his diminishing skills combined with his utter lack of any offensive talent whatsoever, leave him as a ghost of what he used to be.
22) Luis Scola—Houston Rockets
A tough rebounder and a hard worker, Scola survives on guts more than athleticism. He isn’t particularly quick, but he’ll split defensive seams on twisting drives from the mid-post or the elbow.
His jumper is accurate, he’ll box out, and he sets solid screens. He’s a poor defender, falling for too many head fakes and lacking the foot speed to adequately defend the quicker power forwards in the league.
His lack of ups leave him helpless when trying to finish over bigger or stronger players near the hoop, and he misses a lot of layups, traits that keep him in the mid-twenties of the list.
23) Marvin Williams—Atlanta Hawks
Williams can hit mid-range jumpers when given time to wind up, and is athletic enough to snake along the baseline past slow defenders on his way to the hoop.
However, Williams is too lean to be a forceful post player, rebounder, or defender, and isn’t athletic enough where he’ll be a major nuisance to match up with. He’s versatile, but profoundly unspectacular.
24) Paul Milsap—Utah Jazz
Milsap punches his time card, puts on his hard hat, and rampages through any opponent not tough enough to handle his sheer physical strength and endless hunger for loose balls. His screens are pulverizing, his rebounding technique is rock solid (as are his muscles), and he’s an earnest defender, though his lack of height holds him back.
His offensive game is non-existent, but his hard work alone often wins games for the Jazz.
25) Eduardo Najera—New Jersey Nets
Najera is one of the most energetic players in the entire league, always hustling, always defending, always cutting, and always game enough to go up into crowds of opposing rebounders, only to come away with the ball.
Plus, his newfound three-point proficiency is proof that sometimes old Xoloitzcuintles (Mexican Hairless Dogs) can learn new tricks. Najera’s a consummate professional and human being, and a welcome addition to any team.
26) Zach Randolph—New York Knicks
Sure, Randolph is clever enough to know how to use angles in gaining leverage over defenders, sure he’ll rebound at a steady clip, but his defense, his screens, and his attitude are all lazy.
He’ll only pass as an emergency option, and he’s completely useless if the ball isn’t in his hands. Plus, he’ll bitch and gripe at coaches and teammates if he isn’t constantly fed the ball, or if a defender is able to bottle him up.
Fat Zach will produce on a stat sheet, but never in a win column.
27) Joe Smith—Oklahoma City TBA’s
Smith is a versatile veteran who can hit mid-range jumpers, defend some, rebound more, and out-quick slower defenders with a crafty face-up game near the basket. He gets the nod on the list for the lack of quality talent behind him.
28) Kenyon Martin—Denver Nuggets
Martin wants you to think he’s tough—why else is he screaming and yelling after every block or dunk?—but he never shows up on the road, or down the stretch, or in the playoffs against quality teams.
His quick feet and upper body strength should enable him to be a quality defender, but he makes boneheaded defensive mistakes all the time, and he shrinks against elite opponents.
Not to mention his post moves are crude, his jumper is average at best, and his most potent offensive weapon is, after a teammate comes up with a steal, to run the break and slam down a Jason Kidd lob pass. Too bad he hasn’t been able to pull off that move in four years.
29) Jeff Foster—Indiana Pacers
Foster won’t do much, but he’s an excellent rebounder and screen setter, who makes quick outlet passes, and defends earnestly. He’s dependable and reliable, if unspectacular.
30) Nick Collison—Oklahoma City TBA’s
Collison is a tough-nosed rebounder, who isn’t long enough and whose feet aren’t quick enough to enable him to be more than an average defender. He’ll fight his way for buckets under the basket, and he’ll utilize an accurate turnaround jumper while being another crafty, dependable, if unspectacular player.
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2 months ago
i know in your last list u had verejo and big z...and now u have lee and randolph...and since u have artest on this list...couldnt u do the same with scola...i mean...im pretty sure scolas better than half these people...
from 2 months ago
Edited, with Scola now where he belongs, at 22.
2 months ago
You're absolutely right about Scola, and the other site I write for pointed that out right away too. That was my fault for failing to look at Houston's bench after listing Artest as a power forward. Give me a few minutes and I'll make the changes.
2 months ago
Marvin Williams is a small forward and Josh Smith plays at the four....
from 2 months ago
when I watch the Hawks in the regular season, Williams is playing the four and Smith is playing the three.
from 2 months ago
I stand to disagree with you on this one. Check the staring lineup. Ask any Hawk fan here in Atlanta or online (RealGM, Hawksquawk, etc.) and they will gladly tell you that Marvin Williams is the starting small forward and Josh Smith is the power forward riding shotgun in the paint with Al Horford. Their stats alone is all the evidence you'll need (Smith is 18/9 w/2.5 blocks a game while Williams is 14/5). Does 14/5 sound like the stats of a starting power forward, even for a team like the Hawks?
Marvin's entire offense (well, 99.9999% of it) is his midrange shot, which keeps him glued around the perimeter and makes him the kick out guy when 86 people drift towards Joe Johnson when he gets the ball. He never, EVER, EVER defends the opposing team's power forward; he's wayyyy too weak in the frame for that job (even a total biscuit like Mike Woodson knows that). He rarely goes into the lane with the ball without losing it, getting fouled, falling down, or getting called for charging. That's not my opinion; THAT'S A FACT.
Josh Smith may drift out on the perimeter and do his best Antoine Walker impersonation from time to time (which we all wish he'd stop doing) but the rest of the night, he's in the lane defending the other team's four.
from 2 months ago
You might be right then. I usually see Smith defending the perimeter, with Williams inside. Also, Smith, by default, is a better rebounder than Williams, hence the stats. On offense, Smith is a jump shooter who'll drive from the wings, while Williams is usually a baseline player, who can drive, but mostly shoots. It's too late for me to amend the article though.
from 2 months ago
Both good players, but neither of them should be playing power forward. How's that?
They should both be small forwards, but I understand wanting to have them both on the floor.
Either way, Smith is listed as the PF on the Yahoo! depth chart and Williams is slotted in at SF, for what it's worth.
from 2 months ago
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/atl/depthchart
(Meant to add that in my previous comment.)
2 months ago
bass, jamison, lewis and marion all play small forward. Also, Leon Powe belongs at about number seven on this list. And McDyess is better than Maxiell? WTF google for sending me to this cursed site!
from 2 months ago
So I guess Hedo Turkoglu, Caron Butler, and James Jones (assuming Beasley and James Jones as Miami's small forwards) play the power forward position then! Why does Antonio McDyess start and play more minutes than Maxiell, and have more playoff impact, and only a moron would consider Brandon Bass a small forward. WTF google for sending such a moronic person to my site.
from 2 months ago
Stop complaining. Wheather they are a small forwar or poward forward doesn't really make a differene. They are interchangable. The bottom line is that the players are big men that play down low and aren't centers.
from 2 months ago
Leon Powe at 7?!?!? I don't even know how to argue with that, it's just ridiculous.
2 months ago
I might put Dirk a bit higher, but good stuff as usual.
2 months ago
Good article.. IMO Garnett is the best PF in the game at the moment and I would have Amare and Chris Bosh ahead of both Brand and West but hey?
Fun read.. Oh and Nate.. Did you seriously say that Leon Powe belongs at #7 on this list? Hahahahaha.. Your homer goggles must be like 10 ft thick.. Did you room with Leon at Cal or something? What's with the over exaggeration? Haha
2 months ago
Great work, as usual.
My only quibble is with Ron Artest being listed as a power forward. I imagine if the Rockets get desperate they will play him there, but pending his ultimate approval on the court, I think Adelman plans to bring him off the pine at the two or three spot.
If the Rockets can re-sign Carl Landry and Dikembe Mutombo, I think Adelman will use a five man big rotation, plus whatever minutes Joey Dorsey earns.
Adelman used Artest at every position in Sacramento, but with the Rockets, he has the luxury of using him mostly on guards and small forwards.
Artest tells Houston media that he can be the "fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh option, whatever Adelman needs me to do," so we'll see how that turns out.
from 2 months ago
Artest played a lot of power forward in Sacramento, and is a better post defender than he is a perimeter defender. I can easily see Adelman putting Artest at the four and daring teams to score 85 points. The Rockets should have more than enough offensive firepower to run simple sets and score enough to win. I think having him at the four, and Battier at the three is Houston's best lineup, just because no team would want to face both Battier and Artest on the floor at the same time.
from 2 months ago
I also forgot about Chuck Hayes, who is signed for another two seasons.
I don't see Artest stealing away minutes at the four from five to six players already slated to get the bulk of the playing time.
Adelman did play him at the four in Sacramento, but that doesn't mean he will do the same in Houston.
The Kings and The Rockets are too different teams. Adelman has far more options than he did in Sacramento.
I will try to rehash what I think are the different lineups Adelman might use at the end of games. I base this off comments from interviews and watching all of their 82 games last year.
McGrady, Artest, Battier, Scola, Yao
Alston, McGrady, Battier, Artest, Yao
McGrady, Barry, Artest, Scola, Yao
etc.
My point is that I wouldn't list Artest as a power forward because of the few minutes he might play there at the end of a game. I do not anticipate him playing more than two to five minutes at the four in Houston.
The ability to play Artest at the two or three is too tantalizing to use him in an undersized role at the four.
I don't think any of the above players will mind playing end-of-game musical chairs if Adelman determines that one of these lineups fits better at the end of a game than the traditional one.
from 2 months ago
The thing is, Artest is better in every way than the players you're mentioning, and most of them are undersized power forwards anyway. Artest can score from the post better than them, and can defend the post better than them too. Scola and Mutombo can be the backup power forward and center, with Landry also getting minutes. Artest can slide over to the three, but at the beginning and end of games, I think he's more valuable than any of Houston's other power forwards and should play there.
from 2 months ago
I will concede that Artest has more talent, and thus, should be better than all of the above players at the four position.
I still think Artest would serve the Rockets best in a sixth man role. He offers the complete package on both ends, unlike Battier or some of those other players, and could enter a game at the first quarter's five minute mark and give the other team's second unit twos and threes a real thrashing.
At this point in his career, Artest may defend the post better at times than he does the perimeter. I still think Adelman will want Artest to seal off paint penetration more than match up with Tim Duncan and David West.
The starting lineup of Alston, McGrady, Battier, Scola and Yao has already proven one of the most statistically efficient in the league. The problem, of course, has been keeping that lineup on the court and off the injury list.
What intrigues me about Artest's addition is the option Adelman now enjoys, where he can start that already effective lineup, and then bring in Artest. What the Rockets have lacked most in the Yao/T-Mac era is a scorer/impact player who can change a game with both star players on the bench.
The thing is, the Rockets have already been daring teams to score 85 points. What Adelman has now is a team that can score as well as it defends (at least on paper). That's why I value Artest more as a two/three hybrid, where he can create matchup nightmares for smaller defenders. Defensively, he can work to push those same guards/small forwards around and exhaust them.
If Scola and Landry are in foul trouble, would I mind moving Arest to the four spot for a few minutes? The ability to play him there, and knowledge that he filled that role well in Sacramento, is nice insurance.
I understand your argument, but I disagree. We will find out which way Adelman decides to go in October and either direction should bode well for the Rockets.
Oh, and wonderful description of Tim Duncan. Even one of his biggest fans could not have said it better. Did I mention superb list?
2 months ago
It's been reported that Lamarcus Aldridge has gotten a lot bigger and stronger over the offseason.
Also Antawn Jamison, a 20 and 10 guy, deserves to be higher.
2 months ago
Amare is better than West but I suppose that is up for debate. Amare is a freak...
2 months ago
again like in your center list some of your centers weere powers forwards and now some of your power forwads are small forwards ,ron artest did play alot of power forward in sacramento but i dont think he will in houston because adelman knows small forward his artests prime postion...... also ,marion and camby arent pfs cambys a center and marion wont play pf in miami because of udonis haslem and zo at the center
(p.s is 2 high and brandon bass should be like 28 -30 also andrea bargnani should be on this list at lik number 20 or 24 because of his shitty rebounding
from 2 months ago
Is Alonzo even going to play again? Right now, Haslem is Miami's center. Artest played the four in Sacramento a ton, plus Artest at the four with Battier at the three is Houston's best lineup.
Tell me who is starting at power forward for the Clippers this year?
Bass is extremely talented and versatile on both ends of the court, while Bargnani can't rebound, can't do anything offensively besides shoot jumpers, and he's quite possibly the worst defender in the NBA. Sorry, Bargnaini is nowhere close to being a Top 30 anything.
from 2 months ago
Yea i agree with most of the list, not with all your comments but some of your reasoning is just down right stupid. You were a real suckup to David West by putting him at 4 above Chris and Amare, then you criticized Chris's Defense, which if you watched basketball was at least average to slightly above, you also called Pau soft, who also should be above West for the time being. Now even I could continue and rant about what a personally think but the stats speak for themselves i mean:
David West- 37.8mpg/FG .482/3PFG.240/FT .850/ REB 8.9/AST 2.3/ STL .8/BLK 1.3/PPG 20.6
Chris Bosh- 36.2 mpg/FG.494/3PFG .400/ FT .844 /8.7 REB /AST 2.6/STL .9 /BLK 1.0/PPG 22.3
When You Compare these two Bosh I guess also is a Triple Threat, A Diligent Rebounder, A Born Raptors Leader, But Bosh has a Solid Outside Game and His Defense Statistically is Just as Good and If You Watched the Olympics The whole team was talking about his Offensive and Defensive skills he brought to the table. Bosh is Bigger and only is 1 inch taller and 10 pounds lighter, so west isn't really a "strong player" he also the same speed as Bosh who is one of the fastest Power Forwards, and is also one of the most respectful and discipline players too. So when you take that into account and compare stats and this is with Bosh's injury because if i remember correctly he had 10.7 rebounds the year before per game... Well above average NBA elite Rebounding. If you compare the two Bosh Wins by a Score of 5-3 in less minutes in a very tight comparison. Chris Bosh is better as of now.
While two players Amare and Pau have stats that consist of:
Amare Stoudemire: 33.9 MPG/FG.590/3PFG .161/FT .805/REB 9.1/AST 1.5/ STL.8/BLK 2.1/PPG 25.2
Pau Gasol: 34.0MPG/FG.589/ 3PFG.000(none attempted)/FT.789/REB 7.8/ AST 3.5/STL .5/BLK1.6/PPG18.8
Now if you compare these guys its actually funny, cause you said West was overshadowed when Gasol wasn't even on the All Star Team, and Pau was an instrumental piece of the NBA Finalist Lakers. Now in comparison Amare beats West 5-4(due to a Tie) and Pau Lost, but two discerning factors were the facet he played 4 minutes less, was injured, had has stats slightly decline in some areas, and rise in some areas after the lakers trade as he learned to share the load instead of doing it all in Memphis. Including a full rebound less per Game. Now for your list i think Amare and Bosh should be ahead of West in whatever order and Pau should be homing in on West. Because otherwise your list seems ridiculous. And i understand your considering Amare a power forward but he's a center he's only PF cause of the Shaq acquisition.
And with Guy like Boozer and Dirk closing in He really will have to struggle to hold his position and where is Jermaine O'Neal he may have had injuries but he is definitely at least between 20-30 especially with his great defensive capabilities. Otherwise you have a decent list but you really need to work on your reasoning and don't include your personal opinion cause it tarnishes your credibility.
2 months ago
Look buddy, Maxiell is a more potent player than mcdyess (see: dunks, production per minute, hustle), Marion does play small forward, jamison plays on a small club just like Brandon Bass neither of which have a true power forward. Kenyon Martin, Joe Smith, Jeff Foster, Eduardo Najera, Zach Randolph, those guys did a lot to help their teams win, didn't they? My bad for interfering with your powerful basketball column. Ben Wallace, McDyess and Maxiell all did a great job of handling Powe in the playoffs this year, which is why you are so justifiably self righteous. Now, roll back over into your couch in your parents basement in the warm, cozy confines of your virtual world where everything is safe. Venture back into my zone, though, and I might just be inclined to dismantle your precious top 30 centers haha
from 2 months ago
Who gives a damn about dunks, Maxiell doesn't have any halfcourt offense, and he isn't a better rebounder or defender than McDyess. Then look at Maxiell's playoff impact over McDyesses. I like Maxiell, but just because he's on sportscenter more doesn't mean he's a better player.
Ummm....Jamison plays on a team with Brendan Haywood (Center), Caron Butler (Small Forward), Gilbert Arenas (Shooting Guard), and Antonio Daniels (Point Guard). Please tell which position Jamison playes?
Ummm...Marion plays on a team with Udonis Haslem (Center), James Jones (Small Forward, I don't count rookies, and Beasley's most likely a small forward anyway), Dwayne Wade (Shooting Guard), and Marcus Banks (Point Guard). Please tell me what position Marion plays?
And Brandon Bass played backup center for Dallas after Diop was traded away, and power forward when he was on the court with Dampier.
Plus you rank Leon Powe as the 7th best power forward on the list. Sorry Nate, you may be Bleacher Report's stupidest poster ever.
2 months ago
Good stuff, good read, but I think you've neglected some real good role players out there like PJ Brown (was he on your center list?), Anderson Varejao and Tyrus Thomas.
Thomas often plays center in Chicago but hell, it's because no one else can. Give them an average center and Thomas will go back to the 4 in an heartbeat, where he belongs.
And I too think that Dirk should be higher up there, ahead of Bosh and Amare that's for sure. He may crumble under pressure, put Dirk showed some great stuff on the court, even if he's a bonified jump shooter.
Al Harrington should be somewhere out there too, even though he pretty much plays anywhere in GS.
Keep em coming dude.
from 2 months ago
I listed Varejao as a center, Brown isn't that good, and I'm not a Thomas guy. All he can do is jump. He has no clue as to how to play basketball.
Same with Harrington. All he can do his shoot threes, and he's deficient in every other aspect of the game. I'll take my chances with someone else.
2 months ago
Who gives a damn about dunks? go to 82games.com to check out how valuable dunks are. These guys actually research the game and back up their points with this thing called evidence, rather than just spouting off opinions that seem to be true based on watching games on tv. Halfcourt offense, you say? When was the last time you actually watched a Pistons game? Homeboy, learn the game of basketball. Defense wins championships. Is Steve Nash sitting at home laughing it up at how pitiful Maxiell and Powe's low post moves are? No, if he has any sense, he isn't trying to perfect that three pointer with a hand in his face, he's working on his agility and staying in front of his man. McDyess is decent in the paint, but Maxiell commands authority.
You're just reinforcing my point about PFs, the only reason you can call these guys PFs is because their teams don't have a true 4. If you put kobe Bryant on the Bobcats and told him he was the power forward, would he make this list as well?
Leon Powe makes the same sort of impact as Maxiell, but to a higher degree. Watch the NBA finals and then come back to me. Pau Gasol belongs in the seven slot, not Leon Powe! Of course, we all saw how Powe got manhandled. Gasol's passing skills and pump fakes had Powe FOOLED!!! what a chump.
On a separate note, resorting to childish name calling doesn't score you many points with intelligent people, who I assume are your target demographic.
Please stop this silliness so I don't have to degrade you further
from 2 months ago
"You're just reinforcing my point about PFs, the only reason you can call these guys PFs is because their teams don't have a true 4. If you put kobe Bryant on the Bobcats and told him he was the power forward, would he make this list as well?"
Yes he would because he'd be playing the four, and since I'd be talking about power forwards, he'd have to be included as well.
The last time I watched the Pistons were during the Eastern Conference Finals where Maxiell had little impact off the bench the entire series, and was helpless guarding Kevin Garnett. McDyess was a strong rebounder the entire series, played smart help defense, and hit his share of jumpers.
I looked at your 82games site, and according to them, Maxiell has the same "Roland Rating," and is just as effective as Walter Herrmann.
Simply insisting that defense alone is the sole indicator of a player's worth is completely silly. If simply being a great defender was an indicator of winning championships, Shane Battier and Ron Artest would be swimming in rings.
Leon Powe had a great game 2, and a useful game 6, but otherwise had no impact on the series other than some useful rebounding.
And you comment on my name calling, while previously insulting me by typing, "WTF google for sending me to this cursed site." If I'm going to feel like my credibility is being attacked without justification, I'll respond accordingly.
2 months ago
This comment is for you erick in case you didn't get my response....
Yea i agree with most of the list, not with all your comments but some of your reasoning is just down right stupid. You were a real suckup to David West by putting him at 4 above Chris and Amare, then you criticized Chris's Defense, which if you watched basketball was at least average to slightly above, you also called Pau soft, who also should be above West for the time being. Now even I could continue and rant about what a personally think but the stats speak for themselves i mean:
David West- 37.8mpg/FG .482/3PFG.240/FT .850/ REB 8.9/AST 2.3/ STL .8/BLK 1.3/PPG 20.6
Chris Bosh- 36.2 mpg/FG.494/3PFG .400/ FT .844 /8.7 REB /AST 2.6/STL .9 /BLK 1.0/PPG 22.3
When You Compare these two Bosh I guess also is a Triple Threat, A Diligent Rebounder, A Born Raptors Leader, But Bosh has a Solid Outside Game and His Defense Statistically is Just as Good and If You Watched the Olympics The whole team was talking about his Offensive and Defensive skills he brought to the table. Bosh is Bigger and only is 1 inch taller and 10 pounds lighter, so west isn't really a "strong player" he also the same speed as Bosh who is one of the fastest Power Forwards, and is also one of the most respectful and discipline players too. So when you take that into account and compare stats and this is with Bosh's injury because if i remember correctly he had 10.7 rebounds the year before per game... Well above average NBA elite Rebounding. If you compare the two Bosh Wins by a Score of 5-3 in less minutes in a very tight comparison. Chris Bosh is better as of now.
While two players Amare and Pau have stats that consist of:
Amare Stoudemire: 33.9 MPG/FG.590/3PFG .161/FT .805/REB 9.1/AST 1.5/ STL.8/BLK 2.1/PPG 25.2
Pau Gasol: 34.0MPG/FG.589/ 3PFG.000(none attempted)/FT.789/REB 7.8/ AST 3.5/STL .5/BLK1.6/PPG18.8
Now if you compare these guys its actually funny, cause you said West was overshadowed when Gasol wasn't even on the All Star Team, and Pau was an instrumental piece of the NBA Finalist Lakers. Now in comparison Amare beats West 5-4(due to a Tie) and Pau Lost, but two discerning factors were the facet he played 4 minutes less, was injured, had has stats slightly decline in some areas, and rise in some areas after the lakers trade as he learned to share the load instead of doing it all in Memphis. Including a full rebound less per Game. Now for your list i think Amare and Bosh should be ahead of West in whatever order and Pau should be homing in on West. Because otherwise your list seems ridiculous. And i understand your considering Amare a power forward but he's a center he's only PF cause of the Shaq acquisition.
And with Guy like Boozer and Dirk closing in He really will have to struggle to hold his position and where is Jermaine O'Neal he may have had injuries but he is definitely at least between 20-30 especially with his great defensive capabilities. Otherwise you have a decent list but you really need to work on your reasoning and don't include your personal opinion cause it tarnishes your credibility.
from 2 months ago
Thanks for the response.
First of all, I never look at statistics to qualify players. Statistics can be inflated based on circumstances, and can quantify, but rarely qualify. Players are great on basketball courts, not stat sheets.
Bosh may have blocks and steals, but can he defend the post? He's always pushed around by bigger, stronger, more physical players because his physique is so frail. Plus, he isn't a player who can go through opponents for layups, meaning that players who are just as athletic as Bosh, but tougher, will always cause him problems. He relies on finesse offense and defense to succeed, whereas power basketball and tremendous defense have ruled almost exclusively in basketball's history.
Meanwhile, West can push away opponents who try to post him up, and is a very smart help defender. He rebounds well in a crowd, but loses a lot of rebounds because Tyson Chandler is a vaccuum cleaner on the boards.
I agree that Bosh is respectful, and is a fine ambassador to the sport, but he isn't the most disciplined defender either.
Amare loses out to West because, for all of Amare's stupendous athletic gifts, he's self-absorbed, and expects too much without putting in the work. Few players in the NBA are dumber than Stoudemire is on defense, and are pushed around as easily in physical confrontations. I'd like to think that Stoudemire's offensive game would be so explosive that I can get by if given four random teammates, but West's is explosive, versatile, and plays offense and defense exceptionally well, hence their places in the list.
from 2 months ago
Yeah well if you'd pay attention to my comments, its apparent that he isn't much stonger at all, he is also a finesse power forward, and is no more muscular power forward, he gets killed in the post also by bigger players and if you watch New Orleans like I do, you'd see if it wasn't for Chandler's help defense, and for his help with the stonger players, he would be getting killed, Bosh only seems to have trouble cause the raptors didn't have another post presence til the aquisition of Jermaine, and when he's matched up against guys like Tim and Pau he blows right by them, but of course West and himeself have trouble with guys like Amare and Marion who are just as fast and strong, I was saying because he is the better offensive performer, and struggled only due to his injury he played through for a bit, and with the raptors style of play the rebounds aren't all taken by Bosh whoever gets it, gets it, now with a guy like Jermaine they'll both be picking the rebounds up with Bargnani playing his natural position SF, and Bosh's passing ability, which you described as lack luster will be shown, besides the fact you called his effort on defense lackluster he is one of the more passionate players in the game, and all though he seems shy and timid he's intense, besides the fact Amare's behaviour off the court and bad attitude doesn't deffer his talent, know I don't like stats either, cause Bosh's are deflated, but Amare is probably one of the hardest power forwards i the NBA to handle, and he may not be skilled on defense but thats because honestly who is on the SUNS? if he was on any other team he would be able to become a better defender. Now you said players are great on the court I don't know what your talking about because Chris Bosh, is a Phenomenal leader and Single Handedly takes Games, where as, West has the ability to do so, but the Hornets true leader is Chris Paul. And Guys like Carlos Boozer are Solid Power Forwards and you criticism was way to opinionated. An where is JO he's at least 15-25 even with Injuries still a lockdown defender.
2 months ago
erick: marcus camby is 6'11 and chris kaman is 7'0 its a inch difference and theres no question camby is better than camby at the center. camby scores 12 or so points and and 12 rebounds and 3 block plus a steal a game hes lock down defenseivly he can guard most dominiant centers and if camby would play the power forward kaman would have his points decrease by 3 or so points but his rebound numbers would be like 4 or 5 a game which is why i wont be suprised if they put tim thomas at the 4 and kaman comeing off the bench at the 4 or 5
also ive never bass play that much and i was looking at his numbers 8ppg and 4rpg (also 11 and 6 in the playoffs) i mean that pretty good considering dirk plays the 4 most of the game but 20 seems a bit too high in my case maybe 25 or 26 something like that
and bargnani is the worst rebounder for his size but but he he has to be like 30 or something his defending isent hugely bad its just he cant defend the superstars like howard and ming and stuff he locked down antwan jameison in one game and couple others can really compare bargnanis defending to someone like chuck hayes or something like that
alonzo still has probley a year until retirement but who else will they put at center haslem is under sized for a center and doleac i dont think they will put as a starting center unless they sign another center alonzo is my pick and marion is 6'7 while udonis haslem 6'9 and antoine walker is just not the power forward he used to be ever since he got traded around hes averaged under 11ppg and 6 rebounds which not nearly as close as his 20 ppg and 9.9rebounds( plus 5assists) he had in 2003
2 months ago
On offense, Kaman makes his living in the post while Camby's offense usually comes along the perimeter. That's one reason why Kaman is a center and Camby is a power forward on that team. On defense, Kaman is a better post defender and is stronger, while Camby likes to fly off his man, is a poor post defender, and is better than Kaman at defending the perimeter because he's a lot quicker than Kaman. That's reason two why Camby will play the power forward.
Don't tell my how his numbers will decrease, tell me how his impact will decrease. Besides, the Clippers now employ a score-first, score-always point guard which will naturally decrease Kaman's post touches and stats, but they'll also play at a fast clip, which should improve everybody's stats.
What does Bargnani do positively? He can shoot jumpers and he's fairly athletic. His defense is atrocious. His court awareness is atrocious. His ability to score in the paint is atrocious. His rebounding is atrocious. He has four terrible marks against him, and his only positive right now is his above-average jump shooting. He's nowhere close to the Top 30.
Just because Bass doesn't play much, doesn't mean he's not good. If I had a team with random players at each of the four other positions, I'd have no qualms taking Bass for his big time jump shooting, tough rebounding, and strong defense, and playing him big minutes he deserves.
Doleac and Antoine Walker were traded by Miami to Minnesota in the Ricky Davis trade before last season started.
2 months ago
Soon to be top 5 in this list Michael Beasley is going to play pf for the heat marion is a sf now and he plays for the heat not the suns any more you might want to change that
2 months ago
I like a mention of Carl Landry
from 2 months ago
Landry cuts well, he works hard, but he can get outrebounded by taller, more explosive scorers, and his lack of height makes him an average defender at best. If he keeps working hard pn his game, he'll certainly creep into the bottom of the list in no time.
2 months ago
Should've known...if you'd have anyone improperly ranked, it would be a White-guy.
Man-0-man, this articles SUCKS as much as your knowledge of basketball--------putridly!!!
You really need to learn how to let your "psyche" and *emotions* intertwine, when it comes to Race & Sports. Your sports mindset reminds me of Rush Limbaugh when he was on ESPN. Or, perhaps, its like a modern day Jimmy Greek or Al Campanis.
David Lee??...hahahaha...Luis Scola?? You are pitiful!
Please you need to go get *a clue* about Josh Smith & Marvin Williams, badly.
**********And of course, it makes sense that you list "rebounding prowess" as an attribute, then we read a legit 20 & 10 power forward listed at #26 out of a a list of 30 that *you* made? ....should automatically know that he must be a dark-skinned Black man who exudes the Hip-Hop culture. Enter Zach Randolph; a PF who averaged 10+ reb./2 ast. per game as a non-starter ----coming off of the bench many times not even logging 30 minutes per game---- yet he only passes *in emergency situations*...wow!***********
man-0-man, you'd better be one writer who greatly appreciates how this site's Admin. adores the pro-*Inequality Within Sports* mindset...no way you're a Community Leader, if not!
from 2 months ago
Don't you value defense higher than any quality Caucasoid? Oh wait, I forgot...you value blackness as the most important quality on a basketball court; this is clearly seen by your Pro-racist commentary. How else can a self-serving loser like Zach Randolph belong anywhere near the top of any power forwards list?
A complete disregard to playing defense? Check. Constant overhandling? Check. Griping and complaining when he doesn't get his way? Check. Settling