Finally, those of you who have claimed I have a West Coast bias will see that what you assumed was bias was mere fact. The Western Conference is more focused on the blue line and goaltending, but the Eastern Conference has the best forwards.
In this analysis, I cannot go into detail about each of the players like I did for the other units, because a typical team will play 14 or 15 forwards over the course of the season. Even if I stuck to the projected 12, that would be 120 players to analyze for a top-ten list. I would need Simon and Schuster to publish that, because an article of that size would crash this site.
Therefore, I will focus on stars individually and supporting cast as a body. That is bound to make this analysis less scientific than the others. Remember I have to focus on players currently on the teams' rosters according to NHL.com—i.e. I will not project likely signings!
Thus, I am sure there will be more than the usual number of cowardly snipers who log on just to send a disparaging comment—usually without good points supporting their mostly-biased lamentations that I omit their team's players! And as usual, they will never check back to hear the counter-argument. But those who can't, criticize.
1. Detroit Red Wings
The Stanley Cup Champions actually improved their position, both by adding Marian Hossa—who performed well enough in the playoffs to buck the big-game disappearing-act label—and by the Pittsburgh Penguins losing more forwards. Meanwhile, the most significant player they lost was Dallas Drake.
They have stars like Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen, Hossa, and Tomas Holmstrom. They also have a great supporting cast, including players who are good enough to see special teams action—Mikkael Samuelsson, Valteri Filppula, Dan Cleary, Kirk Maltby, and Kris Draper.
A+
2. Pittsburgh Penguins
It is not by accident that these two teams made the Stanley Cup Finals last season. The Penguins return studs like Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Jordan Staal to center their top three lines, making them all potent threats.
They also return Pascal Dupuis and Petr Sykora, and they added Miroslav Satan and Ruslan Fedotenko.
They lost a cavalcade of supporting help, most notably Ryan Malone, Gary Roberts and Mark Recchi, and did not quite gain as much in return. Nonetheless, they still are deep, making this one of the most formidable units in the NHL.
A-
3. Philadelphia Flyers
Despite the loss RJ Umberger, Vaclav Prospal, and one of my favourite agitators in Ben Eager, this squad is elite. It still boasts Simon Gange—if he can stay healthy)—Mike Knuble, Jeff Carter, Daniel Briere, and Mike Richards.
There is also a healthy supply of supporting talent in Scott Hartnell, Joffrey Lupul, Sami Kapanen, Patrick Thoreson, and Scotty Upshall.
B+
4. San Jose Sharks
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2 months ago
Kapanen and Thoresen are both in Europe and not playing for the Flyers anymore.
from 2 months ago
REALLY? NHL.com listed them on their roster! That might not change much, since they were both just supporting cast, but it might have dropped them behind the Sharks. Thanks for the info, and delivering it in a non-derogatory manner!
from 2 months ago
Nah, it shouldn't drop them anywhere (kapanen and Thoreson)...they really did absolutely nothing for the club last year besides leadership fom Kapanen.
from 2 months ago
NP. I think NHL.com is a little slow to update their info sometimes. Kapanen retired is back playing for the team he co-owns. Thoresen didn't accept the offer the Flyers gave him. It shouldn't hurt them much, like you said, but it was kid of disappointing to lose Thoresen because he seemed like Kapanen's protege.
2 months ago
Woo love to see them Fly boys in the top 5!! And yeah, Thoreson and Kapanen are in Europe.
2 months ago
Good article, but I think Recchi was on Atlanta not Pittsburgh. That aside good read and great analysis.
from 2 months ago
Recchi is one of the 20 guys this summer that signed with Tampa
from 2 months ago
oh ya, he included that in this article
2 months ago
omg y didnt you put the nucks on this list????!!! jk jk
from 2 months ago
Thanks for all your comments. And I'm old, so I didn't know what jk meant first--I figured it out when I said "are you kidding me?!"
2 months ago
Again, I've been preaching this a lot, but you've got to at least consider the sophomore slump for the Penguins O. I'm not saying their going to disappoint for sure, but don't count the chickens before their hatched.
2 months ago
Right...so the team with the highest point producing trio over the past 3 seasons doesn't even get a top 10 ranking?
Bogus, completely bogus.
And don't give me the "one line team" BS, the Senators have the second highest scoring top 6 in the NHL.
You might as well go write about lawn bowling if you think Ottawa doesn't have a top 10 forward unit.
from 2 months ago
agreed, Sens and Sabres nowhere to be found is a little bunk. Sabres problem last season was not scoring
from 2 months ago
Fine, they're a two line team. THey also had d-men who could move the puck for them--not all scoring is forwards. And not all that a forward does is scoring, either--I am ranking units on their D, too. Ottawa has good D out of that first line (clearly the best) and Fischer is one of my favourites--that's why they are right there in the 11-15 range that just BARELY missed the cut.
I think some other teams have improved, and many teams are good. Ottawa is one of them.
from 2 months ago
I can't agree with you, professor, on Buffalo. They have lost too much to be on there with competition this stiff.
They have great offensive players like Connolly, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Vanek, and maybe Pominville. They even have an underrated two-way forward in Hecht. But they don't have any studs on both ends of the ice, and they don't have enough firepower to be listed here--six impact forwards is fewer than anyone in my top ten.
2 months ago
Agreed with Spencer. Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson are a hundred times better than the Devils' entire core of forwards. When Brodeur retires, so ends the Devils making the playoffs on a consistent basis.
from 2 months ago
Not only should the Sens be on any top 10 forwards list, they should be top 3.
I'd put them 3rd behind Pittsburgh and Detroit.
You could maybe make an argument for San Jose, so the lowest I'd go is 4th.
from 2 months ago
Thanks for commenting, everyone, and this list was harder than the other two, which were brutal. I know not everyone will be happy since there are a lot of good units left off.
THe great thing about lists like these is they cause discourse and debate because they are not well-defined. I don't pretend to know better than everyone--I don't get a chance to watch all the teams on a regular basis, but I would say I have seen almost everyone outside of the SE conference multiple times (watched as much of the Caps as I could, too).
In the case of NJ, they upgraded that unit and certainly would not have been on the list last year. This is a view of 2008-9.
2 months ago
agreed for the coments about the sens ... they have an amazing line.
about the Habs, I would not put Maxime Lapierre in the All Star-to-be as u nicely call it. I d switch Sergei Kostitsyn into it.
from 2 months ago
Wow, when I saw you commented I expected much more criticism of my assessment of the team you know so much better than I do. THat's like my little personal victory--thanks!
2 months ago
MJ, nice article. One thing I might suggest you omit in furute articles that include Joe Thornton. That you not claim he to be the best player in the league. He is not a stellar defenive player, he plays on a team that plays good team D...as a matter of fact like most playmakers he is on the lazy side of the puck. Many players are better than him in the face off circle and to use that as a comparison tool against Ovie is not fair. Ovie is a winger and winning draws is part of his necessary make up. "Jumbo" is not nearly physical enough for a man his size....he uses it well to fend off defenders but rarely uses it to win a puck battle.
Also now that Hossa has removed the big-game-disappearing-act label as you put it I think you may find JT being the front runner for that label. SJS has been a huge playoff disappointment since his arrival and ask any Bruins fan they weren't too happy with his playoff performance when he was a member of that team.
YES I do catch a lot of Sharks games in case you're wondering and even selected Thornton in my annual pool last season. I'm a fan of Patrick Marleau and Michalek. Thornton is a fantastic offensive player but not the best player in the league. In my opinion he would fall behind Crosby, Ovie and LeCavalier for sure and there could be two or three more players you could make an argument are better....for example Zetterberg and Datsyuk.
Otherwise I thought your rankings were pretty spot on. Ignore all the Sens fans....I think they are bitter because they see the writing on the wall.
from 2 months ago
Maybe you don't get a chance to see him, but Joe hustles back on D all the time to stop plays. He uses his physicality to win battles for the puck in the corner all the time. He's great in the faceoff circle--that was not a comparison of Ovie, but a fair point that his responsibilities are higher and that makes him more valuable on the D-end. We do play great team D, but the use of our forwards is possible because of guys like Joe, who used to kill penalties until we decided to pace him. And of course he's the only guy in years to have over 90 assists three years running.
I will agree to a point about Joe's label. I point out that going into this last post-season, he averaged a point a game for the Sharks. If you take out two series--one his first, and one when he had TORN RIB CARTILAGE--with the Bruins, he was averaging almost a point a game with a TEAM that disappeared in the playoffs--it's hard to score when your teammates are choking. But he didn't show well this last year and it has to raise questions. And I agree there are many others in that conversation of best in game.
2 months ago
Ok let's criticize...
Well, in hockey, the job of the forwards as we all know is to score goals...
So, if we take last year list of the best teams in scoring goals, you have something like this:
01 - Montreal (262)
02 - Ottawa (261)
03 - Detroit (257)
04 - Buffalo (255)
05 - Caroline (252)
06 - Philadelphie (248)
07 - Pittsburgh (247)
08 - Washington & Dallas (242)
09 - Chicago (239)
10 - Edmonton (235)
Montreal have lost no player, and even added a great offense one like Tanguay... I think they are better than 10...
The number 6 don't make sense for example if your consider that last year, Devils finish with the third lowest number in goals with only 206...
And San Jose with only 222 was not really much of a scoring machine either...
Rangers are indeed not bad in offense, but I'm pretty sure they remember when Montreal blast them in their amazing comeback last year, scoring 6 in row when they were down 5-0... You can surely call that ''offensive punch''...
Also, I don't really like them, but Ottawa was second last year and not even on your list this year ?
Tampa Bay or Chicago ?
from 2 months ago
I appreciate your thoughtful criticism of this list, and considering how much you disagree, I appreciate its tone not being derisive. Here is where I disagree with your assessment:
A job of a forward is to play both ends of the ice, not just score. Six of your top seven also got to go against the conference that plays less defence. NJ plays that infernal trap and doesn't need as much scoring, that's why they were in the bottom third, and they upgraded the unit.
And many of your points are related to last year's performance, but I am grading this year's units. Just look at the personnel: this is like from a coach's or GM's perspective--which unit would you want to work with? Tampa is amazingly deep, Chicago has a few great forwards but not enough depth. And Montreal lost Streit and Smolinski; Streit was one of their top scorers, so I don't think the unit upgraded just by adding one-way Tanguay.
2 months ago
Benjamin, I think MJ was listing the teams with the BEST forward units, not who he believed would be the highest scoring forward units as you listed above with last season's goals for stat. Also you list scoring stats some of those goals would have come from defensemen so it's not entirely accurate.
2 months ago
Sure a forward has to do more than just score, but offense is certainly their main responsibility so it needs to be weighted as such.
The Sens have a former Selke nominee in Fisher and two of the best PK guys in the league in Kelly and Vermette.
I don't see how a team that finished 2nd in league scoring last year can lose enough merit points based on defensive ability to fall from 2nd to out of the top 10.
The Sens defensive problems last season were largely due to guys like Redden and Meszaros and poor goaltending, you can't really focus the blame on forwards.
If I were ranking forward units I would probably weight it 1/3 on their defensive ability and 2/3 on offense.
from 2 months ago
I agree their problems on defence were not the fault of the forwards, and while I don't think they are the fault of the defencemen (it's goaltending), Smith instead of Redden is an upgrade on that end, at least. And I also would say that while I did not scientifically divide it 2/3 offence to 1/3 defence, but rather the impact of the player overall, I do believe a forward's impact is measured more by his offence.
Remember, however, there is the factor of the conference they play in--it is simply easier to score in the East because there are more good forwards and fewer good defencemen and goaltenders.
2 months ago
Strange topic.... the top 10 forwards that are best at scoring and preventing others from scoring. New Jersey at number 6 is also a head scratching when they were so desperate for offence last year.
I can't say I agree with a number of your choices such as including NJ Devils and excluding Ottawa or Montreal.
Interesting read but not one that makes little sense to me. Very random.
from 2 months ago
Didn't exclude Montreal.
2 months ago
That double negative in the last sentence of my response should probably read differently!
2 months ago
The Sens top line may be one of the best in the league, but that's pretty much all they have. You shut down Spezza-Alfredsson-Heatley and they are done. When they had their slump, one of those three were out of the lineup and they lost their grip on the Northeast. True, Fisher and Vermette are great second liners, capable of 20 goals, but those are far from the numbers the top three get. So I'm not surprised they aren't on here. It's not the best lines in the league, but the best overall unit.
Good read!
from 2 months ago
Despite Spenser's claim of the second line also being good (which he backed up with stats, albeit focused on offence and disregarding of the ease by which one scores in the East compared to the West), I think we saw how shutting down that one line did in the Stanley Cup Finals two years ago.
from 2 months ago
If you are talking about whether or not the Sens should be #1 in your rankings I would agree with you.
However you are talking about a top 10, a third of the friggin' league!
There is no conceivable way the Sens forwards are not top 10 in the NHL...none, period.
Depth beyond the top two lines is highly overrated when you consider the ice time they get.
Again I'll repeat, the Sens TOP 6 forwards, in other words not just Alfie-Spezza-Heatley, but also including Fisher-Kelly and Vermete, were #2 in NHL scoring last season.
Are you really suggesting that third and fourth liners are the make or break for a team's offense?
I can easily accept a fair criticism of the Sens goaltending or defence, but to suggest the Sens aren't in the top third in the NHL in forward units suggests you are either highly biased or highly visually impaired.
from 2 months ago
Unlike you, Spence, I am not saying your points are invalid. I completely respect your opinion that they should be in the list, and I would rate them a B- like the six teams I put in front of them. And while that second line may score, obviously they and other lines are being scored on too often to make my list.
I would not tell you it was bogus if you had them in yours--I would only take issue with placing them higher than the Wings, in fact. That's the beauty of this--it is arguable, and I thank you for taking the time to intelligently state your argument, even if you clearly do not respect my view regarding that one team. (Incidentally, you have mentioned no other problems with it--would you consider it otherwise a good assessment?)
I do have to vehemently disagree with one point you made: when you get into late season, those third and fourth lines DO matter. Sometimes it is due to injuries, sometimes simply the ability to keep top lines fresher or their role in OT games. But sometimes it is their ability to actually outplay other lines, like the Orange Line of the Ducks did to your Sens top line two years ago. Do they mean as much as the first two lines? No, and I took that into account. But the better they are, the more they mean to the team.
2 months ago
I think it's a good assessment, if the Sens are in it.
I thought your defence picks were good too, your top goalie pick was odd but other than that ok.
But it seems here that you simply forgot the Sens and are not trying to talk your way out of it because I'm sorry it makes no sense.
I never said third and fourth lines don't matter, I said that they aren't as big of a factor as the top 6, however if you do want to include 3rd and 4th lines I'll put players like Niel, McAmmond, Ruutu, Donovan, Foligno and Bass up against any other teams bottom 6 any day.
Perhaps you're falling into the trap like many others around here of thinking the Sens aren't a playoff team, a ridiculous notion if you consider facts and not wild speculation.
The Sens demise last year as not due to lack of talent, it was team chemistry and some internal problems that were caused by poor coaching and some bad seeds. Well the bad seeds are all gone and the coach has been replaced.
As for the notion that you can just "shut down the Big 3"...ya it's really that easy. Sure Anahiem did it, but not before Ottawa destroyed the Eastern Conference on the way there. Ya any lone can be shut down but that goes on any team, if you shut a team's #1 line down they are going to have a lot of trouble scoring.
Anyway this argument is pointless, I know the Sens are a top 3 offense in the league as do most people, what that means for the team overall is up for debate.
from 2 months ago
I can list a bunch of bottom sixes that could take those guys. We will field a guy who scored 14 goals on our fourth line--that's depth. The Lightning will have a hard time getting all their guys dressed. Detroit relies on four lines all year long, and they score with their checking lines. That's three teams off the top of my head that the Sens bottom six don't compare to.
And chemistry is something that reflects leadership, a factor in my assessment, too. I don't rate the Sharks higher than they are because while I BELIEVE their chemistry problems are solved, you never know until they play. Same with the Sens.
The East couldn't shut down the big three because the East is not as good defensively. And I'm not just talking on the blueline, I'm talking forwards. That's why the West has been the superior conference for some time--they have to play both ends of the ice. They also have to play over three time zones instead of one and fight deeper competition and still they have had the edge in the Finals, even after having been worn down.
I don't question the Sens offensive capabilities among their forwards, and a ranking of the best offenses in the league would still easily put them top five. But while defense does not mean as much as offense among forwards, it is underrated. Especially by fans in the East.
2 months ago
When will Atlanta crack this list?
from 2 months ago
LOL! Seriously, though, maybe they would have been on it in 2007.
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