Recently, an article on one of my favorite MMA websites left me scratching my head. The guy that wrote this piece is off base on this one, even though I think most fans will agree with him. If you haven't read it or don't read fiveouncesofpain, here is the link.
http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2008/09/07/ufc-88-a-new-camp-is-the-answer-for-liddell-not-retirement/#more-6258
In this article the writer suggests that Liddell simply needs to switch camps, keep his hands up and hire a good Muay Thai instructor. While I agree that those changes made about three years ago would have helped him tremendously, I doubt they will do much at this point.
Chuck is 38 years old, soon to be 39. He has shown a slow and steady decline in his balance, handspeed, and reflexes. While keeping his hands up more might have kept him on his feet Saturday night, I doubt that would have won him the fight. Rashad still would have evaded most of Chucks punches, and still would have had the much quicker hands on the inside.
What about the Muay Thai? Well that would help to improve Chuck's overall game, and would most likely help to prolong his career a tad, but the more pressing question is who can Chuck beat at this point?
Lets say for the sake of argument that Chuck switches camps, corrects his wide stance and habits of dropping his hands when punching and picks up a decent clinch.
- B/R Ticket Guide
Could he then beat Rashad in a rematch? I doubt it seriously. Rashad is getting better with each fight, and is in his athletic prime. He will still be able to time Chuck and get out of the way before Chuck can answer.
Could he beat Machida? I doubt it. Hell I doubt he could even put hands on Machida. If he couldn't deal with Evans fancy footwork and feints, Machida will make easy work of him. I doubt he could take Machida down either.
Could he beat Rampage? Not in a million years. I know Rampage caught him with his hands down with a perfect counter, ala Evans, but don't forget they fought years earlier in Pride. Chuck was a lot closer to his prime then, and got mauled. At 38 a Muay Thai instructor is not gonna be able to overcome the natural advantages Rampage has over him.
Could he beat Griffin? Before the Evans fight, I thought he had a shot. Now I doubt it as much as any of the other fighters I named. Griffin can and will employ a hit and run style against Chuck, and unless Chuck can keep this fight on the ground where Griffin is still dangerous, I see Griffin peppering him all night with leg kicks and combos.
So who can he beat with this new camp?
I may have the answer to that. I think if Chuck continues and all signs are saying he will at this point, its time for him to start the Senior's tour, so to speak.
The perfect comeback opponent for a "newly rededicated" Chuck would be Mark Coleman. That's a guy a lot closer to his age that he could show off his new Muay Thai or ground skills against. Or he could simply stand with him and show his improved defense where he keeps his hands high. Either way should be an easy win for him.
After that he could move up to heavyweight to fight Couture after Couture gets thrashed by Lesnar(my pick) While Chuck has two out of three in that series, they have never fought at heavyweight so that would be a selling point for this fight.
Last but not least lets remember that Tito is still out there as a free agent. It would only take one win with a new camp to convince casual fans Chuck is back. If the UFC brought Tito back in, he could immediately start bashing Chuck and saying he was brought in to retire Chuck once and for all. Its the perfect fight for both fighters.Chuck could retire with a win over his most heated nemesis, and if Tito won, he can say he finally got over the hump against Chuck and is ready to contend again.
Either way, Chuck's days as a title contender are over. So maybe if the answer for Chuck isn't retirement as I suggest, maybe it's the Senior's tour.
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2 months ago
Ah, a new division for old fighters who don't know when to call it quits! You have found a solution to the problem and I hope you can pass it on to Dana. It is a winner for sure. You can get not only Tito, but the Shamrocks, Tank Abbot and soon Matt Hughes. But don't count on Randy just yet. There is an exception to every rule and Randy has been blessed with better genes than most, he is the exction. Brock Lesnar, on the other hand is a mutant and probably has a chink in his armour which Randy will expose. As you may know, Randy is my choice to spank this new bad boy and send him back to school.
This is a good article, though, and your point about Chuck's abilty to adapt with a new camp and new style is a valid one. Too little, too lat. If only he had changed camps and styles years ago.
from 2 months ago
Not really a new division, but I know Chuck has more fights left on his contract. So instead of putting him back in against a Machida or somebody he has no chance of beating, they should let come back against a soft opponent closer to his age, and maybe let him showcase some changes he might have made to his game by then. Then they can set up a superfight for him, also not against a top contender but against a big name and try to let him go out in style.
from 2 months ago
Like Tito maybe? I am a Tito fan and obviously not a Chuck fan so I know who I would be for, but I don't know about you.
from 2 months ago
Read his profile for a hint. :b
from 2 months ago
Robert, This is a grown-up thing, like goffing on each other in a way. I know he is a Tito fan, I just wonder if the fight was between the two, who he would be for--OK?
2 months ago
Good article Bryan. Not sure how much I agree... but you make a lot of sense.
2 months ago
I really don't agree with the "changing camp" thing like you, Chuck has been training with the same camp for a long time and it got him to where he is today, a former UFC light-heavyweight champion, a feared striker and a legend. Sometimes it's just age, and I also think Chuck was a little overrated, but anyway the guy is a legend, we will continue seeing him in th UFC, fighting up and comers.
Father time catches up to people, well... like Dorothy said, not in Randy Couture's case.
from 2 months ago
I don't agree with the switching camps thing either. Read my article again.
2 months ago
He doesn't need to switch camps. Camps in MMA are not like franchises and sports teams. Training in other camps is welcomed and you can still go back and finish off your training at your own camp and be cornered by your camp. What Chuck needs is a fresh set of eyes to tell him what he needs to fix and what he need to stop doing. Being with Hackleman his whole career, they think alike, they fight alike, they train alike. It's probaaly led to a lot of stale ideas. A fresh camp would do him wonders, add to his tools which is pretty much maxed out at The Pit. Another thing is that I don't think Hackleman is a good tactician. He may be an excellent trainer but the game plan is the same since day 1 - "throw the overhand right and then do the Iceman dance". People have caught on (Greg Jackson had an excellent game plan for Rashad). A Greg Jackson or Matt Hume in his corner would benefit him greatly. Look what Jackson has done for GSP? GSP trains in Montreal but spends a lot of time in New Mexico before fights. He never left his gym in Montreal, though. Chuck needs to seperate professional from personal. I know Hackleman is his friend but if he wants to "evolve" with the sport, he needs more.
from 2 months ago
"throw the overhand right and then do the Iceman dance". Funniest shit ever. lol
I agree Liddell needs a new set of eyes. I really don't understand why more guys don't train at different camps more often. I certainly would. I would want to know what EVERYBODY knows and not just what my trainer can come up with.
2 months ago
I think it's too late in the game for liddell to evolve. He's been with the same camp because that's where he's comfortable and had all his success with. He's also almost stubborn in his approach inside the octagon. He's content to use the same formula for training and for attacking his opponents in the octagon, which to his credit has been extremely successful in the past. Those days are over though.
He's older, he's lost a step, and the quality of his opponents has increased incredibly even since he won his first belt. Guys are so much more well rounded now, dana continues to stock his division with new talent, and the field has essentially caught up with him.
To be honest I don't really want to see him fight again. I'm afraid for his health on the one hand. On the other hand I'd like to see him move on and pass the torch to the next generation (st pierre, silva, etc..)
from 2 months ago
he is also starting to sound a little punch drunk, or maybe its just me. All signs seem to be pointing at him fighting again, so can the UFC at least stop pretending like he's a title contender?
I'm suggesting if he must fight again at least let him go out with a win over a fellow "legend" aka older UFC fighter. Then he can go away and do whatever I hope he has planned to do after fighting.
2 months ago
One things for sure, the Evans fight was as big a wake up call to Chuck as there ever is gonna be.
He needs to understand that from this point forward his opponents are no longer going
to be afraid of "The Iceman".. Changing camps will only do so much
I think the Fear he once struck in people is what actually kept his opponents out of the fight,
and now that the intimidation factor is gone what can Chuck actually accomplish?
from 2 months ago
there is not much left for him to either prove or accomplish at this point Rich.
2 months ago
Very True
anything else at this point is pretty much just him not wanting to swallow his pride
2 months ago
switch camps, not in a million years. why? well now that he owns part of the Pit, and now that he has a wopping 6 losses, and still has the most wins inside the octagon. The thing you miss about even bringing up this question, at no fault of your own in not knowing Chuck, is he is loyal. No amount of money, losses, fame, nothing will make hiom become un loyal to those whom he trusts. He and John became trainer and student through a fight set up between Chucks old Trainer and John, he has never once left the Pit, nor will he.
Alot of guys will move arouind, but it is this camp that got him from being a bar back to a multimiliion dollar rockstar, who still, remembers every guy who he knew back ion the day. Unlike alot of other guys, who say they are for the fans, he is, but doesnt have to say it.
Time catches up with everyone, he will fight probablly too long than he should, that will killn those of us who are his bfriends, but who are we to tell hi when is when. who is anyone? jusge away, thats your right, but withoutn knowing a person, it is anempty one at that. i have gotb top klnow alot of these guys, 95% ofn them are strait shooters, the publicity grabbin, non fight winnin gimme more money guys like tito, theyu ruin what is pure and good in the sport, guys who juice, like bj penn says, " pervert the sport.
nobody is above the sport, so it is no ownder, nobody wants to leave the thing they love most behind.
2 months ago
rich.. if any person in this sporty is afraid, they have already lost the fight before entering the cage. thereis no room for " afraid" in this occupation, you either come to grips with " i get ktfo, or i ktfo" simple as that.
from 2 months ago
guys still come in afraid, because they have to get paid regardless. If being scared didn't enter into the equation, Mike Tyson might not have won more than 5 or so fights in his career.
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