Very often nowadays, people compare boxing to MMA. I think that it’s like comparing break dancing to ballet. While MMA is fun to watch, and root for your favorite fighter, it’s in no way a skill dependent sport.
MMA is a sport where nothing counts. What I mean by that is that all the martial arts skills are mixed up, no one is better than the other. Whoever gets lucky and lands that deciding kick or shot, wins the match.
Kickboxing vs. Wresting, Jiu-Jitsu vs. Karate etc. It is nearly impossible to predict a winner in MMA (I know I will get arguments from the MMA fans that I am incorrect, but most of the time, it’s the physical power and the ability to take punishment that gets the win).
- B/R Ticket Guide
I am not saying that the fighters are not skilled, as the matter they are extremely skilled, in their marital arts field. But most are differently practiced, at different sport. So in the end, it’s more like street fighting.
Boxing on the other hand, is mostly a fight of skill. You have to take everything into account: speed, accuracy, footwork, stamina, chin, counterpunching, slipping punches, etc.
Boxing is like a chess match, where you not only look for an opening, but you have to learn patterns on the spot, and take advantage of the right mistake at the right time.
In the end what I would like to say, is that I disagree with the direct comparison.
When you watch MMA fighters work out, they most of the time work on their physical abilities and strengths. When you see professional boxers train, they spend hours everyday polishing off the skills, learning angles, watching tapes of opponents for hours, etc.
MMA can never replace boxing, and vice versa. Those who like street action need MMA. Those who want fighting in a form of art need boxing. Sometimes I hear people discussing how a certain MMA fighter could beat a certain boxer anytime.
I think that it’s not only irrelevant, but also childish to make those comparisons. They are two independent entities, and both dominate their own group/kind of fans.
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about 1 month ago
I would like to say brave artilce, and that I wanted to write something along the same lines but didn't know what angle to take. Boxing is an art form and the fighters work hard at perfecting the ability to master it. BUT, MMA is not just a lucky punch or kick it is also an art form. Training for both sports have there own intensities. An MMA fighter needs to know defensive moves just as good as their offensive moves. In boxing you use offensive jabs, cross and power punches such as hooks, uppercuts and slick head movement even footwork is a main key in your offense. For MMA fighters the jab is becoming a huge part of their offense as well as spinning back punch, superman punches, Muay Thia clench, knees, front kick, leg kick, spinning back kick. That isn't including the ground game now talk about a chess match one wrong move and you're submitted. Fighters in both MMA and Boxing are more affective when they possess counter move ability. And a defenseive fighter in each will drag a fight to a decision. So I feel both sports should be respected and looked at as different sports.
from about 1 month ago
Nathan, thank you for the reply. You make great points, and I do not have anything to argue them. great job. I guess i did get carried away a little bit, it was not my intention to disrespect MMA. What I wanted to say, was that neither sport should be replaced by the other. Its just that some MMA fans are getting a little bit ahead of themselves, thats all. Of course MMA fighters go through insane training routines. I know that, i have personally witnessed some of them. But what I do think, is that they do not polish their "skill/technique", but rather intensity/power.
about 1 month ago
I agree, they are different sports and both great ones. Dont forget that MMA is an ancient sport though. Pankration was first recognized around 648 B.C. The word Pankration means "All Powers" derived from the two words, Pan meaning "All" and Kratos" meaning "Strength" or "Power". Some tout it as the first all-encompassing fighting system in human history and essentially the birth of MMA . Pankration was basically a combination of boxing and wrestling as they were practiced during this time. It was a contest in the ancient Olympic games.
Aristotle had a quote that said the whole is more then the some of its parts. I believe this applies to the "whole" of fighting. Boxing is a great "part" of fighting as is wrestling, Karate, Sambo, and all the great fight styles of the world. If you haven't seen a show called Fight Quest I really recommend it. They have two guys travel across the globe and learn a new fight discipline and then fight someone versed in it.
To me MMA is an attempt to take all the "parts" and make it "whole". This still looks sloppy to many who are well versed in one discipline. Thats because different "parts" of fighting have been perfected and no one "part" looks like it was intended to when thrown into MMA. BJJ doesn't look as good, boxing doesn't look as good, etc (to those who are BJJ purists, boxing purists, etc).
But an interesting thing is starting to happen in the sport. All of those "parts" on their own are starting to become obsolete (for the most part) and the most dominant fighters are the well rounded ones who are well versed in several different disciplines. The sport, in its modern form, is still learning to crawl and in 50 years it will most likely look like something we wont even recognize, perhaps something even the ancient Greeks would marvel at. I think MMA, if successful, will be the "whole" that Aristotle talked about and that is why I think its the evolution of combat sports.
Keep in mind, boxing in America, has been perfecting over the last 100 years. It hasn't always been the sweet a science it is now. It has grown and evolved and styles have changed and gotten better. The same will happen in MMA. It just got alot more to absorb with all the different "parts" in play.
As far as skill/technique I think fighters are excel at that in their individual disciplines (BJJ, Wrestling) and intensity/power is useful in any sport. I do think most MMA fighters do lack in skill/technique in boxing though since most of them didn't come from that background. They are behind in that dept and are playing catch up. As Nathan said the jab is really starting to become an effective tool in MMA. So yes, I agree. You cant compare boxing and mixed martial arts. They are both great. I just think one is more whole then the other. It will take some time to get there though.
from about 1 month ago
excellent comment, took the words out of my mouth before i could even attempt to articulate.
about 1 month ago
You should try to remember that boxing great such as Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones, Klitchko brothers, and Floyd Sr and Jr have acknowledged and respected MMA fighter's skills.
Oscar De La Hoya trains with former UFC contender Diego Sanchez, and has stated that Diego has amazing skills and is BETTER conditioned than him (Oscar)
If an MMA fight is determined by luck, than why does Fedor Emelianenko have a record of 30 wins with no legit losses, and HoBag has ZERO wins and 10 losses?
from about 1 month ago
Anthony: The reason I wrote an article like this, was to stop the comparisons of boxing to MMA. The luck quote, yes I agree and apologize to the MMA fans, this was a bit too much of me. Also, I never said that MMA was not a skill Anthony, and your emotional response drives me to a thought that your comment was written out of personal feelings or agenda. Here is a direct quote from my article : "I am not saying that the fighters are not skilled, as the matter they are extremely skilled, in their marital arts field." You need to read my article, and then comment. Please don't create an offender out of me because I may have hurt your feelings (in which case know it was not my intention). My point in conditioning is legit, and not meant to insult anyone. When was the last time an MMA fighter had to go 12 rounds ? Putting quotation marks when calling me a writer, is very offensive to me, but you are entitled to your opinion. Boxing is an art, MMA is not. Both encompass great skill, but the difference is there.
Thanks
from about 1 month ago
Vitali,
MMA is not an art to YOU, but the simple fact is it IS an art. In fact it even carries the name Martial ART.
An art, according to a dictionary is the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination. A fighter like Fedor expresses his style and approach, and applies his creative skills and imagination to perform his best in an MMA match, same as Roy Jones does in a boxing match.
Boxing is an art of punching, MMA is the art of fighting. Both are ARTS!
MMA fighter works just as hard on his art as a boxer. It's obvious that one appeals to YOU more than the other, but you HAVE TO understand that both take equal amount of skills, different set of skills.
The reason boxing even exists is because fighters naturally clinch and combat continues on the ground. So, to promote flashy KOs for the audiences and to avoid stalling and stalemates a ref began separating fighters. And now all of a sudden stand-up fight with hands only is an art, and grappling is not???
Let me ask you in conclusion:
Is grappling an art?
Is wrestling an art? Is Karelin less of an artist than Klitchko?
Is KICKING an art? If punching is an art, than why isn't KICKING an art?
Is K1 an art?
Is punching ON THE GROUND an art?
So, according to you ONLY and ONLY punching someone while STANDING is an art, and if kicking is allowed, it instantly ceases to be an art? Do you see how silly that is??????????
best of luck,
about 1 month ago
p.s.
Your comment about MMA fighters unable to go 12 rounds is absolutely ridiculous, and shows you're not familiar with elementary basics of Martial Arts, such as length of rounds in boxing and MMA's various promotions, glove size, dynamics of human body, breathing patterns, and Athletic Commission's rules and reasons for round lengths in various sanctioned sports.
Just to show you how silly your claim is, consider Sakuraba-Gracie 90 MINUTES long fight, where neither man gassed, or Fedor-Nog 10 minute long 1st round!, 5 minutes long 2 more rounds, neither man gassed. Top MMA fighters train WITH top pro boxers, and have identical cardio.
Simply, you're Russian, right? Live in Russia? I'm from St. Petersburg myself. So go train with Red Devils in St. Pete's, and talk ONLY and ONLY after you know what it takes to be an MMA fighter.
respectfully,
about 1 month ago
ANDERSON SILVA the number 1 pound for pound MMA fighter in the world is a pro boxer..with a pro boxing record..his hero is Roy Jones Junior....so its even sillier to get involved in a debate that is essentially unchangeable...politics,religion and mma versus boxing are topics that can take many contradictions and many twists and turns...the stand-up battle in mixed martial arts is essentially" boxing" and that's what attracts the everyday fan....boxing is more of a mind game..a chess match in a ring..THE COMBATANTS moving in and out.. laterally circling and counter punching...no worries about getting kicked in the head or taken to the ground..mixed martial arts on the other hand employs all forms of fighting...KICKS chokes,wrestling,submission holds. and boxing...so in conclusion ..boxing is a form of mixed martial arts (striking)..one form...where as MMA EMPLOYS ALL FORMS..I AM A FAN OF BOTH..
THANKS STOKER
from about 1 month ago
stoker,
To add to what you were saying grappling is also a chess match, just like throwing hands is. And an MMA fight is also a chess match. Only the rules are different, but it's still a chess match in a sense people refer to.
Who is to say adding a high kick to a boxing match takes away the chess game aspect of it? How about adding an elbow? Is it still a chess match? If it isn't, than Tyson never was a chess player, nor an artist nor a boxer :)
Also, Anderson, according to the biggest and latest world-wide poll is not anywhere remotely close to being the #1 pfp fighter on Earth. Click on my name and my latest article/post to see an actual pic of the poll as proof.
best of luck,
about 1 month ago
Anthony, stoker's last post is basically where i was heading. No Anthony, Tyson was not an artist at all, he would have probably been great in the UFC or MMA because he was a very strong puncher who knew how to intimidate etc. Let me answer some of your questions:
First of all, if you would, please describe to me, a training routine of an MMA fighter, I will follow up with a training routine of a Boxer, to make things a little clearer for you. By the way, yes I am Russian, and no i don't live in Russia.
Your questions:
Is grappling an art? Its a skill, not an art, because too little is involved. Timing and location (part of theskill). Wrestlers have very little going through their head as they try to grapple. There is very limited defense against grappling, thus making it again a game of timing, not even strength.
Is wrestling an art? Is Karelin less of an artist than Klitchko? Wrestling is an art, definitely. But I fail to see why you ask that. My point was that MMA fighters have so many different "skills" they simply fail to use them in their true form.
Is KICKING an art? If punching is an art, than why isn't KICKING an art? Kicking COULD be an art, if there was a sport that could isolate it as a majority offensive move. Just like punching, kicking is essentially a skill, not art, put together with some other limitations and skill makes a certain sport an art.
Is K1 an art? No, its not. Hey ill even tell you thins, go to youtube, and write K1 greatest knockouts, and you will see how damn ugly they all are, and not even that, look at the way they are achieved and "if/how"defended. Most of those guys just swing and kick. They hope they land. The ART in fighting, PROVIDES A FIGHTER WITH AN ALMOST GUARANTEE TO LAND THE WAY THEY PLANNED IT.
Is punching ON THE GROUND an art? Again, you are isolating things. I never said in my article that punching was an art. It never is or war. Its a skill that gets polished. Boxing is an art, because all the aspects of it (punching, footwork, brain work, concentration, memory, timing) all work in EXTREME harmony. Even defense Anthony, look at how different they are defensively. When a good boxer throws a body hook, look at them, it beautiful (body straight, slight lean to the side, other arm up to the face to defend in case of a counter, feet planted to provide the body weight in the punch, the punch is solid with power and precision). You just don't see that from the MMA fighters.
So, according to you ONLY and ONLY punching someone while STANDING is an art, and if kicking is allowed, it instantly ceases to be an art? Do you see how silly that is?????????? No its not about the kicking, its about the polished skill along with more limitations. When a fihgter has no limitations or rules to follow, or very limited, they tend to be very wild, its just something natural that happens. When watching UFC, and a punch lands for fighter A, and stunned fighter B, do you ever notice the punches that come from fighter A to finish off fighter B, they are ugly street punches, all of them. Youtube.
In conclusion, I think that maybe in some years, MMA and UFC fighters will try to bring themselves to a more polished fighting form, it will be closer to an art. Again, I stress that they are extremely talented and skilled fighters. They know many forms of fighting (main reason why cannot be called an art, a painter only paints, he doesn't do plumbing), and thy posses great power and concentration. Simply not a complete package, but maybe thats what makes them entertaining to watch. Those little gloves provide for more blood, and shorter fights.
from about 1 month ago
LOL Vitali!
There IS a sport which specifically isolates kicking, it's called taekwondo. So now according to your boxing elitist typical opinion tkd is an art too, but not K1 because it combines boxing and tkd... Jesus Christ man, how silly are you???
Grappling has just as many techniques as boxing. What is your claim based on that grappling is simpler??? What is the FACTUAL basis for you claim please?
Polished form??????? You've been watching too many movies. And by the way polished form in MMA is not the polished form of boxing. Polished form of boxing fails in MMA. I'll educate you:
In MMA the fighters SEEM to YOU to be sloppy and awkward and with bad "form", because the stance in MMA doesn't favor clean boxing. In MMA any boxing stance is an instant disaster due to getting kicked or taken down. In MMA the fighter stands more square with different weight distribution from boxing, making the fighter LOOK less skilled and more sloppy to YOU, because clearly YOU have absolutely no idea what you're looking at.
best regards and good luck,
about 1 month ago
Grappling has just as many techniques as boxing. What is your claim based on that grappling is simpler??? What is the FACTUAL basis for you claim please? This is you asking me questions and and not responding much to mine. Grappling has as many techniques as boxing ? Factually ? Please, if you have a moment, describe those techniques.
Oh and by the way, yes, Taekwondo is an martial ART. Very much so.
(Polished form??????? You've been watching too many movies. And by the way polished form in MMA is not the polished form of boxing. Polished form of boxing fails in MMA. I'll educate you) Anthony, yet again you put words in my mouth. Where did I say anything about polished boxing being successful in MMA ?
See, what you are doing, is that you are yet again, trying to argue why MMA is great. I never said it wasn't. I said its not a real art in fighting. It doesn't look good. It is never consistent. the two sports are different, why would you say that a boxing stance would be useless in MMA, thats too obvious, but irrelevant to the argument. I can just as safely say that any, THE BEST MMA fighter with boxing rules in a boxing ring, would not last more than 2 rounds with an average boxer. Same goes for boxers in MMA. They would not last. But what we WERE discussing, was the art in the fighting. Tell me, back to my headline, what do YOU consider artistic of the two: Break-dancing, or ballet ? Compare them to yourself, and tell me if you had to name one an art form, which one would it be and why ? Answer that for yourself, and then do the same for boxing and MMA.
from about 1 month ago
"I can just as safely say that any, THE BEST MMA fighter with boxing rules in a boxing ring, would not last more than 2 rounds with an average boxer."
KJ Noons is the recent EliteXC Lightweight Champion. He has an 8-1 professional boxing record.
from about 1 month ago
Both ballet and break dancing are EQUAL art forms.
just because some moron teenager thinks Ballet sucks it doesn't mean it does, and just because some old fart elitist doesn't get break dancing it also doesn't mean it's not an art.
MMA is a DIFFERENT art from boxing. It may be broader in it's spectrum, but an art non the less.
According to your logic painting human hands ONLY and ONLY human hands is being a painter, an artist. But painting a whole human being is NOT and art form. So Rembrandt is NOT an artist, but his pupil who specialized in painting hands for his paintings is suddenly an artist...
According to your logic a boxer who is no stranger to illegal elbows, below the waist attacks and headbutts can be an artist, but a fighter who in addition to boxing uses LEGAL elbows, heabutts and below the waist attacks is suddenly NOT an artist...
Watch ADCC grappling or Olympic Judo. The sheer number of moves, reversals and techniques in no way is inferior to boxing. Grappling is just as old as boxing and just as artful and complex. To see just how much there is to grappling, buy an instruction manual in your local book store, as for me to describe to you the grappling techniques would take thousands of pages.
about 1 month ago
Lets see how far he gets Jay. I think that his competition so far has been a bit below average. Agree ?
about 1 month ago
Listen, the last thing I wanted this article to turn into, is me making enemies with the members of this board. I apologize if I have offended anyone. It was my intention to post my opinion (I see how it may have been a little out of lines and harsh), and it is turning ugly. I respect all forms of fighting competition, and I wish I could express that a little clearer. I wiill not post anymore comments on this topic, and i think i will erase it today as well. It is making too many people upset, something I do not wish to achieve. Thanks
from about 1 month ago
Vitali,
Nothing wrong with some heat, big deal. No need to erase anything, and nobody is upset over here.
What I know to be 100% FACT is that you're a boxing fan and NOT a fan of MMA. Which is 100% ok. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
I myself enjoy a good boxing fight AND a good MMA fight. Both are artful, complex and great!
One thing that stands out recently is that MMA fighters don't mind bleeding, which is more than can be said for Floyd Jr... We should show respect to Mixed Martial ARTISTS, same as we showed respect for boxers for the longest time.
cheers,
from about 1 month ago
You don't need to erase something just because it turns a little heated. Spirited debate is good, the world would be boring if everyone saw eye-to-eye.
I do think your article comes off as ignorant at times (ignorant in not knowing the facts, not ignorant as in rude and derogatory). To say that wrestlers have little going through their heads at the time of combat comes across as boxers are chess masters, Michaelangelos in their craft, while a grappler's thought is simply "Ugg. Me man. Me make fire!"
You'll rarely hear an mma fan state that boxing is over-rated or isn's a skill. You often hearing boxing fans berate mma claiming it is a bloodsport, or just 2 guys with no expertise throwing leather at each other, and that is simply down to ignorance. Any jiu-jitsu competition is just as much, if not more so, a chess match than a boxing match. To the trained eye, the slight movement of the hips or shoulders while being pinned down, the placement and positioning of the hands on an opponent who's trying to submit them, the flowing technique of neutralising one attack while posturing yourself for another or luring your opponenent into making a mistake 6, 7, 8 moves down the line to a point where you have them tapping the mat in surrender is more an art form than throwing jabs at someone. One man's meat is another man's poison.
I have no problem with your article. If you offended some people, so what? It's a discussion board. No matter what you say someone somewhere will be offended. Go with the flow.
about 1 month ago
Anthony, I am glad that I did not end up offending you, I know I tried hard to lol. I do respect both competitions, and do follow both. Although I do have agree with you on one thing (finally) a little blood makes it a little more exciting to watch.
about 1 month ago
By the way, I perfectly understand your logic. Boxing has less moves than MMA, so it allows the practitioner to dive deeper into the complexities of his art, similar to how a piano player can be a virtuoso, but a person learning to play 8 different instruments can never be a virtuosu player on any one instrument, and can never achieve high level on any one instrument.
Unfortunately this parallel doesn't work in fighting. Because the dynamics of it are different.
I can hence say that if we were to create a sport where you could ONLY box and box ONLY with the left hand, and NOT the right hand, that would be a more complex and deeper skill than boxing as the practitioner would be able to spend all his time on developing his left hand technique only. So it would be more of a chess match with the use of only one hand...
You see? Who is to say where the limitations of combat are? Are YOU qualified to tell Fedor that what he does is not an art, but what Tyson did IS and art??? Oh, I forgot... Tyson is not an artist either... hmmm..... Now you're starting to divide boxers into artists and non-artists as well... Where does this end Vitali?
MMA is an art of fighting. Boxing is an art of punching. Both are arts.
about 1 month ago
..LOL...HALARIOUS..ANTHONY/JAY...Nobody said that mike Tyson wasn't an artist, just that he is a poor example..there are better examples such as the man that the term pound for pound was named for.."sugar ray" Robinson..*rated best boxer in history!!..Muhammad Ali employed dancing into his work(QUOTE).."I"m gonna dance"..and was the greatest heavyweight ever...Anderson Silva to quote Joe Rogan is "a ballet of violence"...Multiple MMA websites currently rank Anderson Silva as the number one middleweight in the world, while Yahoo! Sports rank Silva as the top pound-for-pound fighter in the world .Silva has announced his intentions to retire by mid 2009, as soon as his current contract with the UFC is complete.(SOURCE WIKIPEDIA)
about 1 month ago
I can see where you are coming from. And no, there is no freaking way i would say that to Fedor. Well, depending on the state of my health insurance.
about 1 month ago
"Don King stole all my money...can i at least get laid?....can i at least get a b*** job?" (Mike Tyson)
from about 1 month ago
LOL LOL Classic !
about 1 month ago
Wow, I am not even going to try and argue with you because you obviously have no idea what your talking about. This should have been in the humor section cuz I laughed alot
from about 1 month ago
I'm glad you enjoyed it !
about 1 month ago
oooooooo....foul.....low blow...hahahaaha..we have boxing haters aboard...lol?
stoker
about 1 month ago
Skoker,
You're the man! You are the most direct and funniest guy on here.
For audacity and humor, you are currently rated # 1 on B/L.
about 1 month ago
I'm a big fan of both sports.
Boxing, for the art of boxing. The skills they have, slipping, ducking, rolling, foot movements, faints, combos. From boxing from a distance to fighting as if they were in a phonebooth, I love it all and pay attention to EVERYTHING. To see who is superior with their hands.
MMA, for the brutality. There are more KOs and usually more brutal fights in MMA. The majority of people that I know prefer MMA for these reasons alone. Nothing to do with art, not saying there is or isn't art (although I see nothing "artful" about MMA, thats just me though).
I do think the comparison is dumb. MMA fans usually are the ones that come up with comments like "boxing is boring"... "boxing sucks"... "boxing is dead"... etc... I usually end up defending boxing when I'm a fan of both. Maybe its just the people I know, but they were never boxing fans to begin with, so I don't get it.
I've also noticed a trend of what type of people MMA fighters are... Maybe it's just the ultimate fighter show??? I don't know, but a lot of these guys are straight up idiots. I know I know, not all. They are fun to watch though.
about 1 month ago
,,lol,,exactly..one is not better than the other..they are both great..boxing just happens to be (striking only)..mma..is mixed...more ways to win ..more skills to learn..etc.. thanks for dah comment joseph..you are number one..in my books buddy..
your friend stoker
about 1 month ago
HITTING WITH FIST GO WAY BACK TO CAVEMAN DAY..UHHG UHHHG...LOL
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