Welcome to the NFC North Roundtable. Here is our lineup of writers; Zach Kruse with the Packers, Scott Rieger with the Lions, and Tom Krems with the Bears. All will be moderating these discussions. Now lets get to it.
The Packers loss Monday night to the Saints was a big one. Will they be able to bounce back next week at home against Carolina?
ZK- Who knows with this team. One week they're spanking the Bears, the next they couldn't stop a forward pass if their lives depended on it. I really thought they'd build on the Bears game, but boy did they prove me wrong. Carolina's rushing attack will be hard for the Packers to stop, but they should be able to contain Jake Delhomme better (let's hope) than Mr. Brees in the big easy. Packers will play them tough, but end up short—putting their playoff chances on life support.
SR- I don’t think so. As I pointed out in the roundtable a couple weeks ago, the Packers have a tough schedule. Carolina is a very good team and has a devastating rushing attack coupled with efficient passing from Jake Delhomme and a solid defense. Julius Peppers might be the best defensive end in football and has been on a tear of late, keeping Rodgers running for his life. Also, I think Green Bay's loss to the Saints was demoralizing, as they were on cloud nine following the Bears game. Going into a short week against the Panthers, I see trouble ahead.
TK- Well I have to go back to lasts weeks discussion on whether the Packers win against the Bears was more the Packs strengths or the Bears weaknesses. I said it was the Bears weaknesses and this game proved it.
Zach said they could not stop a forward pass. Prime example was the first pass of the game that went only six yards in the air and ended up being a 70 yard score. I can’t see the Pack bouncing back, sorry Packers fans.
The Chicago Bears now own sole possession of first place in the North at 6-5. Can they carry the momentum from the win against the Rams and win out in the North, or is it going to be as dramatic as some think?
ZK- It will be as dramatic as they think. Every team in the North is so inconsistent, so who knows which Bears team will show up from week to week. Packers and Vikings will be there until the end, so I'm done trying to crown a division champion until I know it's over. Plus, the Bears still have Minnesota and Green Bay on their remaining schedule. On a side note—it was the St. Louis Rams, so really the Bears gained very little momentum there.
SR- Yes, the Bears have to be the favorite to take the division but it will come down to Minnesota and Chicago in my opinion. A healthy Kyle Orton does help the Bears and they are coming off a convincing victory over the Rams. The Vikings are also playing well though, coming off an impressive drubbing of the Jaguars.
The game this week between Minnesota and Chicago will go a long way towards deciding the division. After that game, the Vikings have the Lions, followed by three tough games, Atlanta, Arizona, and New York Giants. The Bears get Jacksonville, New Orleans, Green Bay, and Houston. The Bears and Vikings both need to win at least three of their last five games to take it, as I think the champion will end up 9-7.
TK- Wow, what a crappy division the north is this year. A 9-7 team will probably win it and yeah I have to say it will be my Bears. That is if they keep giving the ball to Matt Forte because teams do not seem to be scheming against him yet. I personally think that the division will be decided this Sunday. If Green Bayloses during the day, they are out. Whoever wins the Vikings-Bears game will be the favorite. Again, I have to stay with the Bears, because even as good as Adrian Peterson is, the Bears D can at least stop Gus Frerotte.
With Matt Forte emerging as one of the best running backs in the league this year, can he make a run against Adrian Peterson as the best back in the North? Peterson has 1,275 total yards and 8 touchdowns. Forte has 1,245 yards and 9 touchdowns.
ZK- You could make a case that Forte is a more versatile running back, but he's not even close to Peterson as a pure rusher. I've said it before; there hasn't been as good a pure runner as Peterson in this league since Walter Payton. This kid is off-the-charts good, and he could very well get the Vikings into the playoffs by his lonesome. This isn't taking anything away from Forte—he'll be a good back—but Peterson is heads above him at this point.
SR-Emphatic NO! I mean, Forte has put up an impressive rookie season and nothing should be taken away from him, but in terms of ability, potential, and production, he doesn’t match up. Their totals do look close for this season but you cannot discount Peterson’s rookie campaign, as well as the fact that he was the NFL’s leading rusher heading into last week's game, where he missed two series for disciplinary reasons.
Peterson already has the single-game rushing record (296 yards), an NFL offensive player of the year award, and a Pro-Bowl MVP award. Forte is a good young back and in the words of Denny Green “If you want to crown him, then crown his ass”, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
TK- I agree with the guys some what. At least not this year, but it is pretty cool that two of the best young backs in the NFL reside in the NFC North. The reason I say Matt Forte will not make a run at the best back is simple, the Bears game plan does not revolve around Forte getting the ball. For the Vikings, however, if AP doesn’t get touches, they suck.
I mean Peterson is good, but he only averages one more yard per carry than Forte, he has three more fumbles than Forte, and the impressive thing about Forte are his receiving numbers. He has 336 yards and three touchdowns compared to Peterson’s 95 yards and no scores. Yes, Peterson is the better back, but I do not agree with Scott and Zach that he is far ahead of Forte.
Continue to next page for team wrap ups.
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about 1 month ago
i don t know about the bears! they must beat new orleans the vikings and the packers in the rematch to win that division! Green bay should bounce back at home against carolina, who is a bit different on the road . Minnesota has some very tough games including the giants i think! if minnesota wins this week it will be tough for chicago to rebound! Minnesota then drops a couple games to tougher teams and hey the packers might make it to 9-7 with their schedule! Green Bay has the easiest schedule left, i think! iT S goona be a colossal struggle for any of these teams to come out on top of this division! Good luck getting past the Giants, Dallas or Arizona not to mention Tampa Bay! Atlanta or perhaps Caarolina will be the weakest Playoff teams besides the winner of this division! See my playoff prediction article with the monkey! lol thomas 9-7 may not cut it! Somebody has to get to 10-6 maybe!
from about 1 month ago
Thanks for the comment Thomas! I just cant see any team in the North getting to 10-6. When you look at it, that means the Pack has to win the rest of thier games. The Bears have win 4 of 5 with the main one this Sunday night in Minnesota, than the Vikings would have to win 4 of 5. Like I said in the article, the Division will be won this Sunday. The Packers will lose, and the winner of the Sunday night game will have a 2 game lead over them and will also have the momentum to finish the season.
about 1 month ago
Great stuff as always guys.
I have to agree with my man Scott, Chicago is taking the division and probably with a 9-7 record. The Pack will likely finish somewhere around 7-9, 8-8 and the same for Minnesota.
Needless to say a wild card team will not come from the NFC North.
as for the Lions, well...0-16 or bust?
from about 1 month ago
Thanks Keith! I find it funny how just last week, the so called experts had the Bears to win, now because the Vikings won, they have them winning the North. Don't get it, I think I even remember someone saying the Pack is back in after the loss. Confussing right?! ha anyways, happy turkey day man.
from about 1 month ago
well you know what will happen next year right? The Lions will go like 9-7, but the one of the others will win the division at like 12-4 or 13-3. Ha watch that actually happen:)
from about 1 month ago
you know, that'd be fitting. Back when the Lions were somewhat good with Barry Sanders that seemed to happen all the time. They just can't catch a break
about 1 month ago
Scott, gotta hand it to you man. You were able to find positives in the Lions!
from about 1 month ago
Thank bud, but it's not that hard when the talent is obviously there in some cases, but the overwhelming majority of the team suck, allowing the talented few to stick out even more. Look at Calvin Johnson's numbers this year. They are really impressive! Now think what they might be if there was some consistency on offense.
about 1 month ago
The PACKERS win this week they are 6-6. Minnesota or Chicago one is 7-5 one is 6-6. next week, they all have pretty easy games, I think they all win! pack 7-6 minnesota or chicago 8-5 and 7-6. week 15 Chicago loses, Packers win, minnesota loses,,, oops all tied up maybe. Chicago plays Green Bay again, Pack won last time 38-3. Can Chicago beat them? That s a tough one to swallow. Minnesota plays the Giants! Nother loss for them. I think Green Bay finishes with Detroit!!! nother win! Green Bay could win out! and make it to 10-6. Carolina looks like a season maker game for the Packers and they are at home! They are in a must win scenerio.But, they get by Carolina, That means Chicago must keep up with the Drew Brees offense , then beat Green Bay. Minnesota s schedule is tough also. I agree if Green Bay does not win out, Then it might switch to advantage Chicago, The Bears have to beat New Orleans and the Packers. If they lose both of those, they are toast. Minnesota has to beat Denver and the Giants! That probably won t happen. Their other games are not easy either. It seems weird that i have Green Bay winning that division, but i ve crunched the schedule numbers and thats what i come up with. We shall see! Good luck TW, i know your a Bears man! 49ERS suck so i ve got the Steelers left to cheer for! I was born in San Fran, but my stepdad who peaked my football interest when i was 13-14 is from outside Pittsburgh. I saw the immaculate reception by Franco Harris when i was getting a haircut! in a Steeler place, He almost cut my ear off! lol Thomas
from about 1 month ago
Its gonna be great finish at least, but I have the Bears as favorite because besides the Vikings game, they play the Pack and Saints at home, and this year at home the Bears have been in every game until the end so it will be intersting.
from about 1 month ago
the thing that gets me the most, is that in this year of complete and total mediocrity, if the Lions were anyway near mediocre even, we would be in competition for the division title. Ridiculous.
about 1 month ago
Great read! The Lions will be 0-16.
from about 1 month ago
Haha...hey thanks for the optimism!
j/k man, you are probably right as this team would get beat by many top college teams right now.
about 1 month ago
i wouln t quite go that far, scott! lol be fun to see haw florida or oklahoma would do though. Years ago the super bowl champ used to play the college all star team before the season started. That was always hilariois. they were so much bigger and stronger it was such a mismatch they stopped mainly not to get a rookie killed before he made it to camp! lol
about 1 month ago
Good points everyone, it's funny to see so much agreement between fans. First I would say that although the Bears did beat a hapless Rams team, to say that they didn't gain much momentum is wrong. I think that if you're the Bears, you come out of Saint Louis having stopped the pass for the first time since they played the Lions in Detroit. We finally saw them finish a game out strong on defense. There was no letup really and they were able to create multiple turnovers. I understand that it's only the Rams, but after being torn apart by mediocre quarterbacks all year long it has to be nice to have their defense running on all cylinders. To me the standout individual performance that they will look for against Minnesota is the play of Tommie Harris. Remember that it took him a long time to get going this year. I think that the second to last play against Minnesota where he sacked Gus Frerrote to keep the clocks running was his turning point this year and he can elevate this defense to higher levels if he wants it bad enough.
As far as the Forte-Peterson debate goes, I'd give the nod to Peterson as well. One thing nobody really discussed is how he has managed to remain one of the NFL's leading rushers despite the rookie year he had. It's really hard to follow up a year like he has in 2007 with anything close to the same level of productivity. If I were Minnesota though, I would seriously consider using Chester Taylor more. It seems to be the way the wind is blowing this year for 80% of the teams to have a two back system. It's so important to work multiple backs into the lineup because of injuries late in the season, which-by the way- are much less likely to occur if you have two or three quality backs sharing reps. In a league that for so long has been centered around franchise running backs like Barry Sanders and Walter Payton, I think we're starting to see a shift in the way we view ball carriers. More emphasis has been put on the yards per carry stat, instead of net yards.
That's why Forte hasn't received the credit a lot of Bears' fans think he should have. I think he is a great addition to the team, but I sincerely hope the Bears decide to work another back into the lineup this season or next. I worry about his ability to perform down the line if he is used as much as he has been this year. After all, if you have a star running back who rushes for 3,000 yards in a season but gets hurt for the playoffs, you're back to the drawing board. The Giants really set the table for this kind of two back offense and it has been just as popular as the Wildcat offense this season. But unlike the Wildcat, it will probably remain a staple in the NFL for years to come.
Peterson and Forte both need to avoid injury to be great in the long run. All the elements are definitely there, since teams have tried to stop them and been unsuccessful with a few exceptions. Both have helped lift their teams out of holes on willpower alone, and both can go the distance (although Peterson does it better and with more regularity). I think Peterson is at a higher risk for getting hurt because his running style puts more tension on his knees and ankles, and when you plant your foot cut back that quickly, a tremendous amount of pressure gets exerted on the ligaments in your legs (i.e. Gayle Sayers).
about 1 month ago
I think the Bears will take it the direction they need to this Sunday. I just think it may remain tight. Everyone talks about the fact that the Bears have to play the Saints, but after TW told me that the Bears have pretty much owned the Saints, not to mention it'll be while they'll be working Bush back in still and he will still be rusty more than likely after his time off. As far as the AP verses Forte talks, you have to go with AP. AP his rookie year was 2nd leading rusher for the season, and that was with missing a few weeks, and he's looking to be 1 or 2 again this year, again having the injury. Forte opens things up a little because he has the better receiving ability as far as what's been shown. It comes down to when you can hand off to AP, there is no reason to throw to him, just hand him the ball and let him run. On a sidenote, I'm surprised the vikings haven't attempted a wildcat formation and just say we dont need a qb. I like the round table, and look forward to hearing more and maybe offering some insight along the way.
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