The Rock - http://www.ndnation.com
A herd mentality makes us all stupid and such is the case with current group stupid mindthink on Jimmy Clausen.
Writers are supposed to be above the herd mentality (or at least try to see beyond the herd mentality,) which is why the vocation has meaning. Unfortunately that's rarely the case, as it's certainly not with regard to evaluations of Jimmy Clausen. In fact, there seems to be almost a teenage grudge against him for the publicity he received in High School.
Here's a little perspective for those wondering why Clausen didn't take home the Heisman last year.
Clausen was a true freshmen who came in behind the worst offensive line in ND history, with the worst running game in ND history, with arguably one of the worst collections of wide receivers in ND history and behind that line(that gave up a school record and NCAA worst 56 sacks,) he still managed to have a better freshman year than first round draft pick Brady Quinn. No quarterback, no matter how good, could have performed well under those circumstances. Want more perspective? Look to Tom Brady and ask yourself: Did Brady look like greatest quarterback of all time when the Giants were able to pressure him in January's Superbowl? No. He looked like a harried and harassed quarterback who completed just 60% of his passes.
Looking back at the year Notre Dame had, I came away impressed by Clausen's maturity and toughness. More so when you understand that Clausen was more than fifteen pounds underweight after elbow surgery and that he didn't throw all summer until camp. And more impressive still when you realize he injured his hip and had mobility problems on top of everything else.
So here's a twice injured true freshman with no running game, no receivers and no protection and he still completed 56% of his passes. How does that compare to phenoms of the game?
Pretty well.
Should have been Heisman trophy winner Vince Young completed 58% of his passes and threw for 6 touchdown passes against 7 interceptions his SOPHOMORE year. He didn't play at all as a true freshmen.
Heisman trophy winner Carson Palmer completed 55 % of his passes for 1,755 yards and 7 TDs with 6 interceptions as a true freshmen and 228-of-415 passes 54 % of his passes for TDs with 18 interceptions as a junior.
Heisman trophy winner Matt Leinart didn't take meaningful snaps until his Junior year, his third in the program.
Heisman trophy winner Troy Smith didn't play as a freshmen, but completed 55% of his passes for 8 TDs and 3 Ints as a sophomore.
Heisman trophy winner Tim Tebow had some nice stats as a freshmen, but only threw 33 times in total as back-up on a national championship team.
In other words, while certainly not playing at near a national championship level yet, Clausen was at least the equal to the best quarterbacks in recent history while facing many more obstacles, battling two injuries and playing against 10 bowl teams. The best High School quarterback recruits are rarely called on before their sophomore years.
What hasn't been written about Clausen is that he never complained about the blocking, the play calling, the running game or the receiving. He also didn't complain about his injuries, which we've now learned were more extensive than anyone thought. What I observed last year was that Clausen, in the face of the most disappointing season in recent memory, was the one guy on the field who consistently showed emotion and never gave up.
Myopic observers clinging to some hope that Clausen will fail (and like immature schoolchildren are still somehow upset that Clausen's Dad rented a Hummer Limo for his announcement - oh my gosh) should get over it now. He won't.
Clausen is up to 220 pounds, 30 pounds heavier than last season. His accuracy is still uncanny, but now he has his arm strength back and he's looked very good according to all around the program.
But perhaps more important than anything Clausen does himself, he should have more time to throw the ball, a running game and a cadre of receivers who can get open and catch the ball. Keep an eye on Michael Floyd.
Last year I wrote that Clausen will be better than Quinn in this offense by mid-season his sophomore year and I believe that's still possible. Expect Clausen's completion percentage to jump 10 points this year and for him to become a Heisman candidate by his Junior year.
In other words, don't fall prey to group stupid mindthink. Clausen had a very good freshmen year in comparison to previous phenoms, especially given his circumstances and it's only going to get better (barring injury.)
But shhhh, nobody tell Beano.
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3 months ago
This myth that all qbs who play poorly as freshmen somehow turn into studs is ridiculous.
Lots of guys start terribly and end terribly. This could be the case with Clausen. But showing stats from former players has nothing to do with Jimmy Clausen and/or Notre Dame.
Looking forward to the Heisman ceremony in 2 years...
from 3 months ago
You are right that lots of kids do not live up to the hype. To counter, lots of kids do.
The point for me is it simply shows ignorance or bias to call JC anything more than one of the best HS QB in years who had a marginal freshman season playing a highly competitive schedule with one of the worst offenses in the nation.
I understand why people like you or Lisa Horne are taking shots now. The reason, IMHO, is that you know there is a VERY good possibility that for the next 4-6 years, you will not have much to say.
See as an ND fan, last year hurt...A LOT...but it was understandable. When you broke everything down, mistakes were made by the staff and kids were being broken in.
Not being a top 5 team in 09 and 10 is when ND will have a problem. But I do not think this is going to happen and I have yet to read a single comment, post or article from a real journalist as to why they do?
I also see 8 wins in 08 for ND to be highly possible. I have also yet to read a single comment, post or article from a real journalist as to why they think otherwise.
The people who get paid to cover college football, not the people who post on a free blog on Foxsports.com and pass themselves off as someone special, said ND would go 0-8 last year and see 8 wins this year. See the professionals are able to remove the love for their personal team, for the most part, and look at ND objectively. Even Mark May, who had a lot of fun at ND expense last year, is projecting a good season this year.
3 months ago
Truly can't think the point of the article is that "all qbs who play poorly as freshmen somehow turn into studs?" Can you?
3 months ago
Then why spend 5 paragraphs talking about quarterbacks other than Clausen?
Injuries, a young o-line, blah blah blah: All teams deal with these things.
I don't think ND will win 8 games next year, but I'd love to hear which 8 teams they'll beat. Please enlighten me...
I'll start: 1.) San Diego State, 2.) ...
from 3 months ago
6 likely wins:
San Diego State
Purdue
Stanford
Washington
Navy
Syracuse
Plus 2 out of the following toss ups:
Michigan
Michigan State
Boston College
North Carolina
Pittsburgh
Only 1 highly unlikely win:
USC
3 months ago
ND has the biggest herd mentality of them all. I remember reading herloyalsons.com's weekly predictions of ND games, and every week, it was in complete denial of how bad the team was last year. It was actually hilarious.
Am I saying you have a herd mentality? No, but you are obviously a bit biased towards ND, as evidenced by your screen name.
I would have been interested to see your stats on Matt Grothe, Drew Whetherford, Colt Brennan, Chad Henne, just to name a few QBs who had inferior talent to ND, but somehow, managed to win games and have pretty good stats as freshman (Brennan was JUCO transfer).
Instead of selling us on Clausen, you pulled an ad hominem argument to deflect away from the truth- only 4 QBs had worse QB ratings than Clausen.
You can spin that all you want, but I would expect any highly-touted uber-QB, even as a freshman, to have better stats than Temple or Buffalo's QB. Sore elbow or not.
According to Weis, Clausen's elbow was healed and he was ready to play and that's why he started against Penn State, so the sore elbow excuse doesn't fly. Unless he lied. So which is it? Was Clausen hurt? Or did Weis play him because he was ready to play?
from 3 months ago
Lisa,
This is pathetic. Compare Clausen and his circumstances to the best QBs to come out of college: Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Carson Palmer, Troy Smith... they have equal stats and all played (or didn't play at all) under much better conditions than Clausen. We don't know about Tebow because he was a backup who three 33 passes.
You've taken not just a herd mentality, but you've exploited it by cherry picking quarterbacks for comparison. None of the quarterbacks you mentioned came in as freshman, battled two chronic injuries, were unable to lift weights for four months, had the worst line in college football, played 10 bowl teams and were tasked with shouldering the entire offense.
None.
Your comparisons are selective and misleading. Your "article" was nothing more than a collective hair pull to get a reaction.
It had no redeeming quality other than to get everyone defensive.
Whoopeee. You've just joined the bottom rung of writers who write to get a reaction rather than to inform or impart a point of view others hadn't considered.
If you feel the venom, it's because i believe this is the worst "journalism" there is, but granted, it's increasingly pervasive. And in reality, just over a 1000 people read it, which hardly moves the meter.
Aim for better and you'll do us all a favor.
from 3 months ago
USC definitely falls under herd mentality just as much as Notre Dame. Please.
In the 90's it was tough to find someone outside of Watts that was a USC fan. Then Pete Carroll turns this thing around and you all come out of the woodwork. As with most LA fans your quite bandwagon, and it shows in your lack of football knowledge. Stick to the Lakers, Hollywood, and celebrities vaginas.
3 months ago
"I would have been interested to see your stats on Matt Grothe, Drew Whetherford, Colt Brennan, Chad Henne, just to name a few QBs who had inferior talent to ND, but somehow, managed to win games and have pretty good stats as freshman (Brennan was JUCO transfer)."
Um, Lisa...Chad Henne as a frosh went to the ROSE BOWL!!! So how in the HELL did Michigan have inferior talent than ND?? Henne got to throw to Braylon Edwards for Christ sakes. Drew Weatherford played on a good FSU team as a frosh. Seriously, do you do ANY fact checking? One other point, since you seem to love throwing stats out there...how many teams last year faced defenses like GTech, Michigan, Penn St, Michigan State, and UCLA as 5 of their 9 starts like Clausen did? I mean, you keep saying that Clausen was 5th worst, but don't you think he would have fared better against an easier schedule like something in the MAC? There are things you just cannot compare.
from 3 months ago
Neel-
I was using freshman QB stats to compare to Clausen's stats, since the author of this blog used soph/junior stats of some other QBs, such as Leinart and Palmer, which has no relevance whatsoever when comparison to a freshman QB.
Furthermore, yeah, Michigan went to the Rose Bowl. But i said " a few QBs had inferior talent to ND."
AS IN SOUTH FLORIDA OR HAWAII. I didn't specifically say Michigan, so you jumped the gun there, pal.
Yes, I do fact checking, and nice try.
UCLA's scoring D was #29, Tech was #21, Michigan #23, Penn State #7, Mich State #56 on scoring D. Why Mich State's D is deemed impressive by you is beyond me. One top 20 team in scoring D.
The stats change for passing defense: Ga. Tech #41, Penn State #39, UCLA #70, Michigan #8, Michigan State #44.
You only beat one of those teams, and that was UCLA, who spanked a #70 in pass D.
So I'm not sure what your point is in regards to all these "tough passing D's" he faced, but anything #40 AND WORSE should be considered fair game for ND.
And what do you mean he would have fared better if he had a MAC schedule???????/
You aren't in the MAC...you're ND. With a TV contract! And a gaziilion NCs and Heismans. So all these excuses about how he would have fared better had he had a MAC sked is alarming.
MOST BCS teams would be undefeated with a MAC sked. I don't understand that "excuse of the year." Are you seriously whining about your non-MAC sked?
News headline: "Fans complain that Clausen would have fared better with a MAC schedule."
What do you think other fans would say about that? Seriously. I'll let you take that statement back. I'm in a good mood.
3 months ago
One more thing....while Michigan went to the Rose Bowl, as usual, they were a bit overrated.
ND beat them, Ohio State beat them, and Texas beat them...three teams that were their only real competition (besides Iowa) that season. (For Pete's sake, the beat SDSU by 3 pts.)
3 months ago
Nice article, Rock. The improvement by the Spring game was noticeable by Clausen, the OL, and the skill players.
I'd add that Davie recruited 4 OL in 2002 before Willingham came on, that Willingham recruited 2 - Harris and Sullivan, now both in the NFL - in 2003, 2 OL in 2003 - one transfer and one left football due to injuries, and 2 OL were recruited in 2004 - one of them by Weis.
All together Willingham was responsible for recruiting a total of 3 OL who played football at ND in 3 years. After the Super Bowl, Weis immediately recruited the one junior starting in 2008, and then got 6 more OL recruits in his first year. He has now recruited 14 OL, though 4 have just gotten to campus.
Hopefully, next year the Blue-Gold game can have two offenses because ND will have enough OL.
In 2005, Quinn played behind juniors and seniors, and in 2006 behind seniors and fifth years. In 2007, the only Willingham recruit left - Sullivan - and two juniors and two sophomores were the OL. The inexperienced and young OL could not establish the run - or protect the QB.
I think anyone who follows ND football knew the OL recruiting gap was going to impact ND's play last year - and knows that the experience they all have returning is going to improve play.
Some people just look at W-Ls and jump on the bandwagon.
3 months ago
Lisa-
I wasn't complaining about the schedule. I was making the point that a lot of teams (like the MAC schools) played easier schedules and faced easier defenses than Clausen did, so therefore they did better statisticly at QB rating. GET IT? Let me explain it again....let's say that the Eastern Michigan QB had a better rating than Clausen. My question is...which one of the 2 played against better defenses? I was implying that Clausen went up against 4 big 10 schools, UCLA, and Boston College. You showed the rankings and all were in the top 30 out of 119 teams in total defense except for MSU. I wasn't saying ND needs to have a softer schedule, just pointing out that you keep harping on Clausen having a poor rating yet how can you compare his experience to bottom feeder schools that play cupcakes?
I'm glad that you got so much attention after writing a negative ND article, I know that's what you wanted. Just be prepared to change your tune when ND starts getting better.
It cracks me up that you keep going back to Weis using Ty's recruits. Lisa, if you want to use that argument, than please explain these coaches to me:
1) In 2002 when Ty went 10-3 in his first year at ND, he used all of Bob Davies recruits. He then went 5-7 and 6-6 the next 2 years using his own recruits.
2) Can you please give Ron Zook credit for Urban Meyers national title in 2006 since he recruited 90% of the starters on that squad?
3) Can you please tell us all that Dennis Erickson is a fraud because he used all the kids that Dirk Koetter recruited at ASU last year?
Plain and simple...How do you explain Brady Quinn going from a so-so 2 year starter to an All American? And before you say, "Experience", then will you admit that Norm Chow had zero to do with Carson Palmer, that it was his "experience" under Hackett for 3 years that allowed him to blossom?
How do you explain the production of Maurice Stovall who was struggling in Ty's west coast offense for 3 seasons before having a breakout senior season under Weis? Did you know that in the spring Weis told Stovall to drop muscle because he was too big and it was slowing him down? Do you think that Weis's wide open passing attack made any difference? Lisa, can you please FUCKING explain why Ty Willingham had Jeff Smardjiza riding the pine as a frosh and sophomore, yet when Weis got there he put in a 3 WR attack that utilized Smardzija so well that he broke all of ND's receiving records??? I mean, how can you have it both ways. You tell ND fans to be realistic and look at things and call them as they are. Yet, you won't give Weis any credit for his first 2 seasons, you give it all to a guy that has done absolutely NOTHING in Seattle. Every ND fan knows that Weis made mistakes last year, and we hope that the ugly experience helps ND for this year. But to not give Weis ANY credit is just dumb. Weis's offenses SHATTERED ND all time records in 05 and 06, but since ND flat out sucked in 07 now Weis is awful??? You call that sports journalism? And please stop hiding behind this crap that you love ND and how daddy went there, we could care less. Try writing an unbiased article for once, that's all we ask. And by unbiased I mean both sides, not just anti Notre Dame because you know it gets a lot of hits. And please, PLEASE put sources in when you quote something...that's journalism 101. We're still waiting for the quote that JC wanted to go to ND all his life. All I remember reading is that he chose ND because of Weis's reputatation for QB coaching. Who knows, JC may have gone to SC if Chow was still there.
from 3 months ago
Simply the best post I have read on here....
I doubt you will a response from Lisa. She has moved on to other threads. Even if she does comment, it will to move the target and not counter your clear line item points.
from 3 months ago
Neel,
Your post and facts concerning Weis's elevation of the team he inherited reminds me of Bum Phillips quote about Bear Bryant:
"He'll take his'n and beat yur'n. Then he'll take yur'n and beat his'n."
Weis should get credit for his coaching hires, since this was such an important factor in improving the level of play.
As much as some would like to repeat their beliefs, the talented recruits who have been coming to ND for three years now is evidence of their belief in state of Notre Dame football.
3 months ago
Neel,
Absolute awesome post, we all need to ignore Lisa, Tim and the Cal bear clown a little more. They are only here to post crap in order to get our fires going and believe me I am more guily than most. I am so looking forward to the next decade of ND football, keep up the great work!
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