Let’s talk Independence. You don’t have to look far on message boards or in sports articles to see advice to Notre Dame to “join a conference”—usually without clear reasons and occasionally with disparaging comments about Irish football.
Notre Dame football has yet to sacrifice its independence or many of its longtime rivalries—something many Americans still respect. This independence has greater risk and more challenges in assuming duties conferences handle, but also has greater rewards and more freedom.
The achievement is a national university football program whose every game is televised, rivalries from coast to coast, and a national fan base.
The financial benefits of membership in a large conference, however, include a chance at a BCS bowl, a collection of secondary bowls for three-quarters of its teams, an eight-game conference schedule, share in a lucrative conference championship, and a division of all the bowl monies, plus a television package through the conference.
Major conferences generate a degree of market control, some pricing power, and a collective identity. Fans debate which conferences have the better teams, the best defenses, or the harder schedules.
Conferences encompass some great traditional geographic rivalries—Ohio State-Michigan, Texas-Oklahoma, Alabama-Auburn, USC-UCLA—and the tension that goes with finding out who will be the conference champion.
As an independent, Notre Dame must earn it alone. Is there still a place in college football for the independent—the equivalent of a successful family business in a corporate world? Should Notre Dame join a conference?
Notre Dame’s “Conference” of Opponents Compared - Longevity
For argument’s sake, we’ll call the eight teams listed below Notre Dame’s “conference”—three Big Ten teams (Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue), two from the Pac-10 (Southern Cal, Stanford), one from the Big East (Pittsburgh), one from the ACC (Boston College) and one Independent (Navy).
Notre Dame is the major non-conference opponent for each of these teams. Compared to most conferences' teams in longevity, Notre Dame’s traditional rivalries are quite comparable, especially the top five teams.
Notre Dame Okla USC LSU
(Big 12) (Pac 10) (SEC)
Opponent Yrs
Played
Navy 81 Okla St 102 Cal 95 Miss St 101
Southern
Cal 79 Texas 102 Stanford 85 Miss 96
Purdue 79 Kansas 99 Wash 78 Ala 71
Mich St 71 Mo 93 UCLA 77 Kent 55
Pittsburgh 63 K-State 89 Ore St 71 Fla 54
373 485 406 377
Michigan 35 Nebr 83 Wash St 67 Ark 53
Stanford 22 Colo 58 Ore 54 Aub 42
Boston 17 Tex A&M 26 ASU 33 Vand 28
College
Total Yrs 447 652 560 500
Army (49 yrs) and Northwestern (47) have played the Irish more than Stanford or Boston College, but neither are on ND’s future schedule except for one game against Army. Stanford has played ND the last eleven years. BC has played ND 14 out of the last 16 years. Notre Dame has scheduled Stanford and MSU through 2011, Pitts and BC through 2012, and Michigan and Purdue through 2016.
Southern Cal has played Notre Dame more than any of its conference opponents except Cal and Stanford.
The Big 12, Pac-10, and SEC (above) have more history with their opponents than ND does, but the three conferences most mentioned as possibilities for Notre Dame football are the Big Ten, ACC, and Big East (below).
Notre Dame Ohio St Clemson West Va
Opponent Yrs (Big Ten) (ACC) (Big East)
Played
Navy 81 Mich 104 NC St 76 Pitts 100
Southern
Cal 79 llinois 94 Wake 73 Syracuse 55
Purdue 79 Wisc 73 GTech 72 Rutgers 35
Mich St 71 NW 73 Md 56 Cincy 16
Pittsburgh 63 Purdue 50 NC 53 Louisville 9
373 394 330 215
Michigan 35 Minn 47 Duke 51 Conn 4
Stanford 22 Mich St 38 Va 44 S. Fla 3
Boston 17 Penn St 33 V-Tech 30 (None)
College
Total Yrs 447 512 455 222
Purdue and Michigan State have played Notre Dame much more than Ohio State.
Again, the longevity of games with opponents is more than comparable—especially when ND is compared to an ACC or Big East team—even allowing for the Big East only having eight teams.
So, if Notre Dame joined a conference with a full eight game in-conference schedule, which four opponents should ND keep? Southern Cal, Michigan, Navy, and Boston College? Would it not be like Florida switching to the ACC and being told to choose which four SEC teams it wished to continue to play non-conference?
Joining the Big Ten would allow Notre Dame to keep Michigan, Purdue and Michigan State. The Irish might substitute non-conference Pittsburgh for Michigan, adding to USC, Boston College, and Navy.
That non-conference schedule would be tougher than the usual Big Ten or Big East teams's non-conference schedule. Notre Dame’s strength of schedule ranks traditionally in the top ten—seventh in the 2000s, eighth in the 1990-99 decade, and first in 1980-89—for the past 30 years.
More on that comparison with my next article.
Tradition matters—for Notre Dame and for its long-standing opponents.
(Thanks to Chestertonlep for permission to me to use this photo)
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3 months ago
Interesting. Notre Dame belongs to the Big East, but their football program is independent. I can see the football program finally joining the Big East, but the Big Ten makes more sense, geographically speaking.
Problem: if ND's football program joined the Big Ten, there would be enormous pressure for that conference to have a CC, something they don't want, even though they would have the magic number of 12 teams. Moreover, they can't call themselves the Big 12 if ND did join....that's already taken.
I can't imagine them having their athletic programs belong to two distinct conferences, so it would probably be the Big East. And for some reason, I don't see ND seeing that conference beneficial towards them.
Couple in the fact that they would have to share revenues, and I see them staying independent.
What the BCS needs to do is to not make an exception to them in regards to Bowl Selection criteria. The special ND clause has riled a few fans because it reeks of special treatment.
If I were ND, I wouldn't be joining any conference. They have their own TV contract, don't have to share revenues with a conference, and have a special treatment BCS clause. It's the best possible situation for the school.
from 3 months ago
Brilliant points?
from 3 months ago
Notre Dame would be a perfect fit for the Big Ten since its a highly-respected university academics-wise (and lets not forget that the Big Ten was formed as an academic alliance first, and a sports conference second), but there's too much bad blood between ND and the Big Ten for the school to willingly join the conference (not to mention their TV contract and whatnot)
from 3 months ago
Based on the last several years, Notre Dame would have been a cellar dweller in Big East football and it certainly never has come close to dominating its Big East foes in basketball or even in other sports.
So they can remain a League of their Own because they are now in a Class of their Own, at the bottom of the barrel.
from 3 months ago
Great point. Notre Dame deserves no special treatment. If anything, not playing in a conference should hurt them, not help them, because they don't have to win a conference. Personally, I think the best thing the BCS could do would make a rule that only conference champions could play for the title, then Notre Dame would be forced to join, and would lose all the extra money it makes with its TV contract and such. The problem is that people still rank Notre Dame too high because it is Notre Dame (before last year, when everyone knew they sucked.) Notre Dame is kinda like the Yankees, most people love or hate them, but the MLB doesn't have its governing body giving special treatment to the Yankees.
from 3 months ago
Daniel, you say "and it certainly never has come close to dominating its Big East foes in basketball or even in other sports." I feel obligated to point out that the BIG EAST used to have an all-sports championship trophy (sort of a conference version of the directors' cup). Notre Dame won it every single year from the University's entrance into the league until the competition was discontinued (largely due to frustrations that ND won it every year).
3 months ago
Interesting choice of words - "special ND clause has riled a few fans because it reeks of special treatment". I covered ND's contractual relationship with the BCS in two previous article I wrote - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27815-notre-dame-football-joined-a-conference-for-the-bcs
and http://bleacherreport.com/articles/24014-the-bowl-cartel-series-bcs-commissioners-say-what-me-worry, detailing the bowl impacts ND can have, financial breakdowns and the current BCS contract.
The Notre Dame clause - to ND fans - is not very special and a huge majority of them would agree that the current BCS contractual arrangements need to be torn up.
Kevin White, ND's former AD, was recently interviewed by the Rock, in ND Nation - I think you like his writing. White gave some detail about ND's motivation behind agreeing to the current BCS contract:
“I've been at that table for 8 years...My previous institution (Notre Dame) was pretty open minded, much more so than I had ever articulated in the national media. We were going to do what was best for college football...we were a conference of one and knew, had a pretty good sense of the impact we had and the juice we had in those conversations but in the same time we were pretty open minded."
In short, Notre Dame agreed to take less money (4.5 million v. 17 million) for a BCS bowl game "to do what was best for college football" - a TV contract with Fox for all the BCS bowls with all players. The "special ND clause" you may be referring to is the $1.3 million as a conference member, which really works out to less than conference members get. But read my article (Notre Dame Joined a Conference - for the BCS) for all the details.
The BCS conferences have greatly improved their financials with the new contract - see the link for NCAA Postseason Financials.
Thanks for sharing your feelings.
3 months ago
The only way Notre Dame will ever join a conference in football is if they lose their TV deal (which NBC just renewed) and they get treated like all the other "mid-majors" in the mind of the BCS which will never happen.
3 months ago
regardless of what they do, they should keep stanford on the schedule. They're a great team to play and have a lot of things in common like academics and great weather...errr. regardless, i'd be sad to see the fumbling irish not on the schedule. It's great to have tradition laden teams on our schedule. Now, if we could only get Michigan to come out here outside of a Rose Bowl, ha, maybe they'd get a pac-10 win if they played us. see: USC + UM + Rose Bowl... ouch
from 3 months ago
I was glad to see a Stanford fan's feeling about the ND-Stanford rivalry. From an ND fan's perspective, Stanford does everything right for its student-athletics. Notre Dame has great respect for Stanford. Congratulations on winning the Director's Cup for the 14th year in a row.
3 months ago
Why does it matter if Notre Dame doesn't want to join a football conference?
3 months ago
they are catholic and have been different and separate since martin luther. let em stay out there. as things change more and more in society, nbc's love affair will fade as their glory fades.
3 months ago
Notre Dame has a better TV deal than the entire Big Ten conference. If they joined the Big Ten they would be forced to not only surrender traditional rivals but they would also have to split their money between the other Big Ten schools.
3 months ago
Sorry so late to the discussion. I have to wonder aloud like BabbyTate. Why do so many people get upset that ND isnt in a conference? Were people getting so upset back in the 80's when holtz was around? When we won our last NC, did people say it didnt count because were not in a confernece?
Besides, we play just as good if not better competition than many schools which belong to a conference.
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