I've been saying it for weeks, but thanks to the Cleveland Browns' butt-whipping of the Giants on Monday night, I can finally write it: the G-Men had become very overrated.
It's quite a roller coaster ride of over- and under-ratedness the Giants have been on the past two seasons. Last year, they began the season a bit overrated, then became very underrated with their early struggles. All the way up until they beat the previously undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl, they were overlooked.
As soon as that game was over, however, everything changed. Suddenly, the Giants were America's sweethearts, having slain the big, bad Patriots. Eli Manning was suddenly an elite QB and the defense drew comparisons to some of the best of the past two decades.
Then, suddenly, it changed again (I realize these ups and downs are ridiculous, but it's all true). Thanks to a couple of other overrated teams, the Eagles and Cowboys, the Giants became underrated again, picked by many to finish third in the NFC East. The defending champs; picked to finish third!
Not to be outdone, however, New York beat up on weak early-season competition and took advantage of some stumbles by its division rivals and became hailed as the NFL's best team again. False, false, and false.
Don't get me wrong, the Giants are still a very good team, but this is probably an 11-5 team at best. Many of the team's weaknesses have been overlooked early on thanks to the weak schedule, and winning the Super Bowl caused certain players to be rated far more highly than they deserved to.
Here are some reasons why the Giants are overrated:
1. Contrary to popular belief, this defense is worse than last year's.
Somehow, I keep hearing Giants fans and football analysts alike raving that the defense is even better than the unit that relentlessly pressured opposing QBs last season, culminating with a dominant performance in the Super Bowl.
This is simply not so. You don't just replace a future hall of famer like Michael Strahan, a pro bowler the caliber of Osi Umenyiora, and three solid pros like Kawika Mitchell, Reggie Torbor, and Gibril Wilson without at least going out and picking up something in the free agent market.
The Giants were in the best position to replace the retired Strahan, because they had Justin Tuck, a pass-rushing beast who recorded 10.0 sacks last year, waiting in the wings. However, once Umenyiora went down with a season-ending injury in training camp, having just one replacement wasn't enough. They were equipped with another natural defensive end, Mathias Kiwanauka, but moving him up from his spot at linebacker creates a weakness there.
And that's where the weakest part of the defense is right now. Gerris Wilkinson has stepped in as the starting right outside linebacker and has failed to produce. He has just eight tackles through the first five games, including only four in the last four contests.
2. Eli Manning is not an elite quarterback.
This one may be even more puzzling than the first. Where does everyone suddenly get the idea that Eli Manning is some type of stud signal-caller? Yes, the Giants did win the Super Bowl with him at the helm, but nobody ventured to say Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were elite QBs when they hoisted the Lombardi trophy.
First Madden 09 gives the guy a 93 overall rating, seventh-best in the game. I know it's just a video game, but they scout this stuff very thoroughly and I'm wondering how they got to this conclusion.
Then, after a few games this season, I actually hear people suggesting Eli is the better of the two Manning brothers? Is this a joke? Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, when healthy, are interchangeable as the top QBs in the league. Eli is very mediocre.
Did everyone get so swept up by the Super Bowl run last year that they forgot Eli had just a 73.9 passer rating last year, 25th in the league? His rating was worse than such known bums as Kyle Boller, Damon Huard, and Joey Harrington.
Didn't anyone notice that Eli's 20 INTs thrown last year tied him for the most in the league, while his 23 TDs were only 11th? That's not a very good ratio.
Can we stop fooling ourselves by thinking this guy is some kind of star?
3. Kevin Boss is not Jeremy Shockey.
Anyone intelligent already knew this, but since some football fans aren't intelligent, I have to say it. During last season's title run, Boss became somewhat of a cult hero among Giants fans, while the injured Shockey sulked in the corner.
Yes, they did end up winning without Shockey, but that's thanks to the defense and a huge wide receiver that goes by the name of Plaxico. Trying to go the full year without a stud tight end like Shockey is a poor choice.
Although injuries have limited Shockey to just three games this year for New Orleans, he has already managed 16 catches for 151 yards. Boss has played in all five of the Giants' games and has caught just six passes for 84 yards.
From 2002-2007, in addition to being a superior blocker, Shockey averaged 62 catches and almost five touchdowns a season. Boss has 15 catches and three touchdowns in his career.
4. The NFC East is not the NFC West.
This one requires some explaining. The NFC East is the best division in football and it will take a monster weekly effort to emerge as division champs, and even to survive the regular season.
The Giants have looked so good early in the season primarily because they have played two teams from football's worst division, the NFC West, in the Rams and Seahawks, and have also played winless Cincinnati.
The Giants scored 41 points against the Rams and 44 against the Seahawks, who have the league's 29th and 32nd scoring defenses, respectively.
They combined for just 30 points against the Browns and Redskins, the only two teams they have played in the top ten in scoring defense, and needed overtime to beat the Bengals, a team which has yet to win a game.
The rest of the season will speak for itself, but the Giants' performance so far has not warranted the praise that has been heaped on them. Manning has not yet established himself as an elite QB and both the offense and defense need to prove themselves against better competition before they can be judged accurately.
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about 1 month ago
Thank you for this, I'm glad that I'm not alone in thinking the Giants are overrated. Good stuff.
from about 1 month ago
I gotta say that your all wrong. Everyone has a bad game and the browns aren't necessarily a bad game. They had injuires and weren't playing up to their potential. Anybody with Jamal Lewis, Braylon Edwards, Cribbs, and stallworth catching passes from a gun slinger like anderson can score 35 points. I mean...you better not be giant fans because that is turning on your team when they have a bad game. If not...your just one of the many many people who think the giants are ovverated. Then again. Those overrated giants just won a superbowl and are still 4-1?
about 1 month ago
I'm waiting to see how we do against Dem Boys... especially with the injury to Romo. If we can put up in the next few weeks and beat the 'Boys, we'll be able to say that we're right on top of the NFC!
about 1 month ago
Yes they are overated! But not by much. They are a top 5 team and yes Eli is an average NFL QB. And yes my Browns laid a whoppin on them Monday Night, Payback!
about 1 month ago
the giants lose osi, strahan, shockey, gibril wilson, kawika, and you say we are overrated after going 4-1 without them. do you know how dumb this makes you look? if anything, we aren't rated high enough.
from about 1 month ago
Before last week, most people ranked the Giants as the best team in the NFL and even now they are still in the top five
about 1 month ago
Agree to disagree on several issues. First, Eli Manning is an elite quarterback. Just because you have one bad game does not mean you are not elite. Peyton Manning struggled until this week against the Ravens. Also, Eli's rise to elite status occured AFTER last year's regular season. Meaning his regular season quarterback rating does not reflect his recent rise to elite status. Let me remind you he beat 3 of the NFL's best quarterbacks last year: Brett Favre, Tony Romo, and Tom Brady.
Second, I would not say the defense is worse than last year. It is different. Obviously, Osi and Strahan are huge losses, but our corners are more experienced and healthy which should help in coverage. However, I do agree that the Giants outside linebackers are the weakest part of the defense.
Lastly, OBVIOUSLY Kevin Boss is not Jeremy Shockey. Thank God! Shockey is one of the most skilled tight ends in the league; however, he refused to buy into Tom Coughlin's Team first mentality and was more worried about his own stats than the team winning. Boss could care less about his stats and embraces blocking which is perfect for the Giants.
from about 1 month ago
I still see no way Eli could be considered an elite QB. By my count, he's only 11th best of the healthy QBs this year (which excludes Brady, who is obviously better, and Carson Palmer, who when healthy is much better). Throughout their careers and even to this point, I would still say Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, Tony Romo, Donovan McNabb, Kurt Warner, Phillip Rivers, and Jay Cutler are all definitely better than Eli. And you can even make solid arguments that both Aaron Rodgers, David Garrard and Jason Campbell are even better than him right now.
Don't forget, even looking at this year right now, Eli is only 13th in passer rating, 14th in passing yards, and 11th in TDs. I'm not saying he's not an NFL quarterback, but I need to see a lot more to consider him elite.
about 1 month ago
Agree to disagree on several issues. First, Eli Manning is an elite quarterback. Just because you have one bad game does not mean you are not elite. Peyton Manning struggled until this week against the Ravens. Also, Eli's rise to elite status occured AFTER last year's regular season. Meaning his regular season quarterback rating does not reflect his recent rise to elite status. Let me remind you he beat 3 of the NFL's best quarterbacks last year: Brett Favre, Tony Romo, and Tom Brady.
Second, I would not say the defense is worse than last year. It is different. Obviously, Osi and Strahan are huge losses, but our corners are more experienced and healthy which should help in coverage. However, I do agree that the Giants outside linebackers are the weakest part of the defense.
Lastly, OBVIOUSLY Kevin Boss is not Jeremy Shockey. Thank God! Shockey is one of the most skilled tight ends in the league; however, he refused to buy into Tom Coughlin's Team first mentality and was more worried about his own stats than the team winning. Boss could care less about his stats and embraces blocking which is perfect for the Giants.
about 1 month ago
As David said above, I agree to disagree on this. The defense is not better than last year, BUT, it is not a bad one by any measure and I can name at least 30 other teams that the giants defense is better than.
Eli is an elite quarterback, every elite qb has a bad game here and there, peyton has his mishaps, so did tom brady, and so will every qb along the way, so one bad game since last years minnesota collapse is an excellent stretch.
Kevin Boss is not Jeremy Shockey, but shockeys talent was not meshing with team concept, the pressure is off eli to get him the ball, yes he was good, but not good for the giants and that needs to be clearly understood. I do miss him though.
The NFC east is not the NFC west and it is those games in the NFC east that makes each team within the division stronger because each game is like a playoff game, come out of those alive and you have gained more than a win against someone outside of your division. The good comes with the bad of having such a good division.
Now for the overrated nonsense, tell me what teams are better? The worst I could place them is sixth, which.......puts them in the playoffs out of the NFC east. That is not overrated.
about 1 month ago
First off... Don't use Madden to prove your point that eli is overrated... that's just stupid.
In regards to the defense. Gerris Wilkinson has eight tackles because he is rotating with Bryan Kehl, who has 16 tackles. Combine those two you get 24, which puts them on pace for roughly 80. The same amount as the guy who they replaced, Kawika Mitchell. Tackles are an overrated stat anyway, no basis to using that.
The difference between last year's D and this year's is this year's won't be dominant. That doesn't mean they can't be better. Despite monday's poor showing, the secondary is full of talented, former high draft picks that can play. I would like to see one of our vets play back there more but there's no doubt the talent is there. The same thing couldn't be said last year.
Our front four is still one of the best in the business, not as good as last year, but still good.
And it's just asinine to compare what Eli did to what Dilfer and Brad Johnson did. Did you check out Eli's numbers in the playoffs? On the road, in all types of weather, against top 5 defenses on each team, he was sensational. He made clutch plays when he needed to. Did Brad Johnson and Dilfer throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter in a SB? No. He wasn't the reason why we won, but he was a pretty damn big one. I don't care what Eli's numbers say in the regular season, he was great in the playoffs, and that's what he has going for him right now. He doesn't need to be elite. I'll take the rock solid he's given us the last 10 games.
Another baseless argument being Kevin Boss and catches. Without Shockey, we've run more 3 WR sets and the passes that usually go to Shockey have gone elsewhere. Except they aren't dropped as much, and if it isn't thrown to that target he doesn't bitch and disrupt the huddle. What I was worried about when Shockey was traded was blocking, but the star-ledger astutely pointed out how we are running very effectively to Boss's side.
I have no problem with you saying the giants are overrated. Just back it up more effectively.
from about 1 month ago
Eli Manning's stats in the Super Bowl: 19-34 passing, 255 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
Brad Johnson's stats in the Super Bowl: 18-34 passing, 215 yards 2TD, 1 INT
Almost exactly the same numbers, and I would definitely argue the Plaxico Burress/Amani Toomer/Brandon Jacobs trio of playmakers is much better to work with than Keyshawn Johnson/Joe Jurevicius/Michael Pittman.
Even more telling is how they got their teams to the big game. Johnson in the regular season was great as well, throwing for 22 TDs and just 6 picks, with a rating of 92.9
Yes, Eli did a GREAT job in the playoffs helping the Giants win the super bowl, but NO, he is not elite. As I said in a reply above, he is not even a top 10 healthy QB right now, and I will once again list the rest:
By my count, he's only 11th best of the healthy QBs this year (which excludes Brady, who is obviously better, and Carson Palmer, who when healthy is much better). Throughout their careers and even to this point, I would still say Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, Tony Romo, Donovan McNabb, Kurt Warner, Phillip Rivers, and Jay Cutler are all definitely better than Eli. And you can even make solid arguments that both Aaron Rodgers, David Garrard and Jason Campbell are even better than him right now.
Don't forget, even looking at this year right now, Eli is only 13th in passer rating, 14th in passing yards, and 11th in TDs. I'm not saying he's not an NFL quarterback, but I need to see a lot more to consider him elite.
about 1 month ago
I really don't think that the Giants are going to miss out on the playoffs though. With Brian Westbrook's and Donovan McNabb's health concerns and the imploding of the Dallas Cowboys, the Giants have a great shot at winning the division or getting the Wild Card and thats all that matters. Also can you tell me any team in football that is blatantly better than the Giants. They played a bad game, every team is allowed to have one.
from about 1 month ago
I said they're an 11-5 team. That would put them right in the playoffs. There's no dominant teams so far this year, so nobody is blatantly better, but to have analysts and fans making the Giants sound like last year's Patriots is quite far-fetched
about 1 month ago
Which analysts have said that the Giants are comparable to the Pats of last year? Not that I don't trust you, but I'd like to know who those idiots are.
Fans are always going to be extreme one way or another. I'm sure the same fans that thought we are going 19-0 are saying we aren't going to make the playoffs after the loss on MNF.
about 1 month ago
''Don't forget, even looking at this year right now, Eli is only 13th in passer rating, 14th in passing yards, and 11th in TDs. ''
everything you say is nonsense. i wonder if you really know anything right now. seriously. first of, YES HE IS 13TH IN PASSER RATING. WHY? BECAUSE OF THE 1 BAD GAME HE HAD!! HE WAS TOP 5 BEFORE THAT. DUHHHH. then you talk about aaron rodgers? COMPARE THE RECORDS. BY THAT LOGIC, HOW IS DAVID GARRARD BETTER THAN HIM? HE HAS 4 TD'S!! CAMPBELL ONLY THREW LIKE 40 YARDS MORE!!! DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING???? i know your kind. you think you are a stat buff, but by using your stats you contradicted yourself and lost all credibility in this argument of yours. you come off as a hater you know that? you talk about stats? look at favre!! he had 1 good game! a game that would never happen again, so now he's having a better year too huh?
under eli manning, as a full time starter, he led the giants to 11-5- 8-8,10-6, now he's 4-1. he lost tiki barber first. now he lost strahan, and a slew of other impact players, and his best defensive end, that allowed tuck to play more as a LB. and he got better. after 1 loss you have the audacity to talk this smack? get the eff outta here. i was hoping you'd respond to m so i could SLAY your argument and show the difference in our brain power. come on, im waiting. this team isn't even healthy yet. we only have 6 catches out of the TE slot because shockey is gone. and we are STILL winning. if you wanna talk smack, go ahead, but get it right. and until brees gets his ring, until garrard gets his, until, cutler gets his, ALL under the circumstance eli got his, you have nothing to say. you wont even admit he's a different player. before Monday he only had 1 int, but you, you decide to take his lower rating from 1 BAD GAME, and say, oh his passer rating is low. SMH./ TRY AGAIN
about 1 month ago
The Johnson-Manning SB comparison holds no water.
The Patriots defense was better than the Raiders defense.
The Bucs were winning the whole game. They dominated them. The Giants had to win in the 4th quarter, where only Joe Montana played equal to Manning out of the other 41 SBs.
Burress was playing with a partially torn MCL that game so he was harldy a weapon. Not to mention Johnson really had no pressure throws as it was a butt whooping from the start. Maybe he would've stepped up if it was, but we don't know that. Manning stepped up when the pressure was on the whole post-season. Johnson can't lay claim to the same thing.
I agreed with you that Eli wasn't elite, no?
Now you're being a total idiot. Cutler over Eli? What has Cutler done in his career? Decent stats, but no pressure games to choose from. The goal of the NFL is to win big games and win in the playoffs, not compile big stats. Which cutler hasn't even done.
You're seriously saying you'd take Kurt Warner, David Garrard, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger over Eli? Rivers I could see, but he would suck in New York. Some of his passes resemble Jeff Feagles punts. How would that work in the meadowlands wind? How about his attitude? You think the NY media would let him off easy with that?
Eli has been through the most scrutiny of any QB the last couple of years, maybe juxtaposed next to McNabb. And he still managed to contribute majorly to an improbably SB win.
How come no mention of Eli's durability? 55 straight starts, very few on the list you put over Eli can say that. Durability for a QB is HUGE in today's NFL. Only Brady and Manning had been better up through this season.
It's clear based on the lack of insight in your article and comments that you'll try and find anything to prove to yourself that the giants aren't that good. I've been reading statistics since the beginning of January that the Giants aren't good enough and they just kept on winning. They are a very good team. Whatever flaws you can find in them, you'll find in the 31 other teams and probably a little more in their's.
about 1 month ago
David makes a great point. this is NY. rivers would be destroyed here. fans in NY have a sense of entitlement, so losing is unacceptable. thus booing Arod, booing marbury, and everyone on the knicks and things of that matter. the media drove randy johnson to snap at reporters, eli has came a long way. just looking at him, he has way more confidence than he used to. he has become a immensely better player. i scoffed at the notion trhat he has become better than his brother, that will take time, but i give him all the credit in the world. only a few teams can win a superbowl and come back like this after huge losses on their roster, i did not expect them to start like this. i said i would settle with 9-7, 10-6 and a playoff win if im lucky. but you guys just don want to give them props. they are still in the toughest division in the NFL hands down.
about 1 month ago
you do make some legitimate points in this article... Problem is you don't take into consideration intangibles that the Giants are a Team, play as a team and think as a team... Eli Manning isn't a top 5 QB but he is the perfect QB for New York, I think he is the best at a 2 minute drill and in a big spot there is no other QB I would want besides him.... The Giants this year will feast on cupcakes (Rams, Seahawks, Bengals) and will struggle with teams like the Steelers, Cowboys and as we saw already with the Browns... but I still see them making the playoffs and once they are in the playoffs, anything can happen as we saw last year...
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