And there was a time that I was in total amazement, watching the great gunslinger of the '90s pick apart teams with his laser passes and crazy pocket scrambles. And there was a time I loathed his name, as well as Desmond Howard, for years after he trounced the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
But now, the fervor for Fav-re in New York has reached new heights, and I am convinced that the success of the Jets has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with their star QB.
Favre Throws, Jets Lose
When Favre throws it a lot, the Jets lose. They are not built to throw the ball. At least not the way Favre tries to throw it.
The Jets are 3-2 when Favre throws for 30+ passes, and they barely beat Kansas City. Remember, Favre had three interceptions in that game, and two of those turnovers became two touchdowns for the Chiefs (one on following drive, the other on defensive touchdown after INT).
The Jets are able to win without Favre because their O-line is able to keep defenses off the line of scrimmage. Although not the biggest line in the league, they have very talented and strong players holding the fort for Thomas Jones and Favre's pocket.
Alan Faneca and Damien Woody are legitimate Pro-Bowl talents, and D’Brickashaw Ferguson and center Nick Mangold were former first-round picks. The line hasn't given up a sack since Week Eight.
- B/R Ticket Guide
When Leon Washington and Thomas Jones get into the offensive mix, especially with draw plays and screens, the Jets' offense is dangerous, and there is little need for Favre's gun-slinging tactics with a mobile line able to block up-field for their half-back playmakers.
Greg Cossell of NFL Films spoke yesterday with Fox Sports' Steve Czaban and mentioned the real success of the Jets lie within their backfield playmakers, and to keep Favre conservative.
Hey Brett! David Bowie & Freddie Mercury are Calling You
When the line does break down, Brett has the amazing ability to make plays on the scramble. The sad part is, Brett has the tendency (My bias would call it stubbornness) to throw into coverage instead of tossing the ball away.
When he is under pressure, he will make stupid plays. Period. This has killed him against the Patriots, Raiders, Chiefs, and Chargers, and the Giants in last year's playoffs. Only in Kansas City was he able to redeem himself with his clutch drive to win the game.
Favre in Green Bay was able to scramble for big plays because of two things he doesn't have now:
1. His youth: I loved him (except when he played the Patriots) when he was younger, but he isn't as good as he was. He still has the gun, but his nimbleness and reaction time are a tad bit slower than his earlier days.
2. His Go-To Guy(s)
Although one can say that the Jets' offense has a little "West Coast" in it, you have to look into the exact style that Favre and Mike Holmgren ran in Green Bay and the immense talent he had around it.
Favre lived and died off of players he was accustomed to. Bubba Franks, Mark Chmura, Dorsey Levens, Ahman Green. He was addicted to his tight ends and running backs. Although Donald Driver, Bill Schroeder, and Antonio Freeman burnt up defensive secondaries, Brett Favre had that short-yard go-to guy that gave him comfort in the pocket.
He doesn't have any experience with anyone on the Jets. He hasn't grown accustomed to his backfield companions. He has lost his addiction with Thomas Jones, Chris Baker, and Justin Keller. Bubba Franks is still around, but he is nowhere near the No. 1 tight end on the Jets' depth chart.
Without those offensive weapons and experience with his teammates, Favre's ability to make great plays are stifled, and only make it more dangerous for him to dictate the offense.
The Jets are dominant without Brett Favre. It is sad to say, but Favre is more of an asset to their offense when he isn't throwing the ball trying to win games. Chad Pennington on the other hand...
See Also: Preview And Prediction: Pats Vs. Jets Tonight @ 8:30pm
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about 1 month ago
some good points. but overall to say Favre isn't an asset to the Jets is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. the second the man steps on the field he makes a difference, he gives the Jets cache they didn't have with Pennington. regardless of how Favre's age has affected his play, the Jets are 6-3. now that's not all due just to Favre, but you can't NOT give him some kudos.
impossible.
"the Jets are dominant without Favre"? that's what you ended your story with. well, last year WITHOUT Favre, they were 4-12. so far - so far, this year WITH Favre the Jets are 6-3. sorry, but Favre does make a difference. not SOME, or A LITTLE or A BIG difference.
he's makes a difference. it's that simple. period.
from about 1 month ago
Before Favre came, they spent $50 million on free agency. I can't count 4-12 because you also have Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Calvin Pace, Derrelle Revis etc.
You can't count one free agent without the other 5. Thats all I'm saying. Its like you were sad last year, and you became happy when you bought a car, and happier when you got a stereo.
You can't say you are happy because you got a stereo; you totally forgot you already bought the car. The Jets were good without him, with they team they had after free agency, not after they were 4-12.
from about 1 month ago
The Raiders spent money like crazy too. So did the Vikings. The Jets now have HEART. The QB is the most imporatant position on the field. Converting on 3rd and long doesn't show up in the stats like TDs or yardage, but it control the game. Ask the Jet players what they think...
about 1 month ago
dang! "he" makes a difference. not "he's". why can't we go back and edit our comments like on some websites...
from about 1 month ago
Dude, I'm working. The community is suppose to edit it. My job is to talk, not teach English. If you need english to justify your knowledge of life, go read James Joyce or Nabokov. I'm here to give you analysis, not creative writing.
from about 1 month ago
Sorry, I thought you were talking about my work.
Don't worry about the edits, I hate when people bring it up. I know you are smart. Sorry for the quick reaction.
about 1 month ago
Overrated and Favre in the headline - not very original. This article is a regurgitation of every cliched critique Favre-bashers have been throwing around since the offseason. Favre brings skills and TRAITS to the table - leadership, toughness, chemistry. Some of the interceptions he's made this year are frustrating for a fan, but to say his team is better off when he's not passing the ball? How many TD tosses does he have?
He diversifies the offense by getting everyone involved.
I don't think you ever truly watched his career.
And to even suggest that the Jets would be just as well off with Chad Pennington - man, save the dope for after you submit the article.
from about 1 month ago
I did. DId you read my appreciation of him beating the Patriots? Or his time under Sherman and Holmgren. How many of your friends remember Desmond Howard?
I've watch over 100 Favre games, and I am a Patriots fan. It was the same with Pedro: I thought he was amazing, but you get old and a certain system won't work for someone anymore.
He hasn't diversified the offense this season. Not as much as his time with Green Bay. He nearly lost two games, which would've made them 4-5.
I have written original headlines to no avail, and have picked apart my senses of objectivity. I am honestly stirring the pot, because you wouldn't have read it if I didn't.
Read more of my articles, and I won't commit to lousy titles.
from about 1 month ago
I'm not even bashing Favre. I think he is old, and makes too many mistakes for a new system he has never been involved in.
He ability to lead a team down-field in the clutch, or being a leader, there is no way I could estimate it, and it must be immense.
BUT he has nearly lost two games, and the defense had to hold the fort until he was able to get it together. If he lost that game to the chiefs, there would be a different conversation. A QB, regardless of stature, shouldn't be in win or die situations when you have a good team.
If this was the Lions, I could give him props for trying. But those mid-field lobs have costed him the playoffs, and nearly has blown it for the Jets this year.
I am not bringing up his career; I am talking about what he can do for the Jets in 2008. My belief is; not that much.
Don't confuse me with a Favre basher. I had a poster of Favre walking down the Lambeau Field corridor after Vick beat him in 2002. I thought he might've retired.
I am a football fan. I love football. If a player isn't helping a team, I have the right to analyze it without being consolidated into a Favre-basher.
about 1 month ago
This is probably one of the most uninteresting articles I've ever read. First of all, winning and losing is a team effort. Okay, he threw interceptions that were returned for touchdowns. From our view, they were his fault. But were they really? Did the receivers run the right routes? Did they give up on the routes? It's easy to make assumptions when you are on the outside looking in, which makes it easy to point the finger.
We can "What if" all day and play the blame game all day. "What if" he didn't throw that interception? Well, "What if" the cornerback made the tackle to prevent a touchdown for the other team? I can go on and on. But what matters most is if you get a win. At the end of the season, no one cares if you had a Tom Brady year as he did last year. They still lost the Super Bowl!
D. E. Patton
about 1 month ago
got your message, Red Sox and no problem. my whole point was you can't say Favre isn't an asset on the team. and i recognize the upgrades in the OLine and defense.
it's a team effort, man. hey, for guys to argue about who's responsible for this and who did that - we can go on and on about that. the Jets are 6-3 and their gelling and they feel they're winners. last year at 4-12...what can you say?
no - it's not all Brett. i know that. BUT, Favre is part of the equation.
about 1 month ago
I do believe Favre played amazingly against your Patriots just not too long ago making very little mistakes. Oh! And he threw more than 30 times. Perhaps you are just a Favre basher. Ironic you write this article on the eve of the most important game of both the Jets and Patriots (your team) of the season thus far.
from about 1 month ago
Yes I did.
And if you read my preview, you would've noticed my disclaimer about Favre.
First, he threw over 30 passes with 7 coming in overtime.
Two, he threw behind the line of scrimmage 7 times ( Jones, Leon Washington ) and limited his passing down-field completely ( he averaged 9 yards per pass, and a lot of those yards were YAC)
He showed he can manage a defense. But so could Pennington. So I don't see the difference. The late-drive he concocted was amazing, but the Patriots were missing Adalius AND Ty Warren, which opened up their right side ( for Justin Keller ).
Not a basher. In the long run, a team healthier than the Patriots will show my card.
about 1 month ago
Favre wins another one. 7-3 and sole possession of the AFC East baby!!!!
from about 1 month ago
Barely. 9 yards per completion does not a great QB make.
The Jets deserve 1st place. But you deserve a better QB. You would've swept the Patriots if you did.
about 1 month ago
Favre hinder? Please....momentum against you, OT, hostile environment, the Patriots standing in your way & a team that steps on the field thinking "we can actually win this!" and performing to that expectation? Doesn't happen very often unless there's reason to believe. Of course, the youngest team in the NFL had that attitude last year with literally no running game and finished 13-3...congrats Jets. At least Pack fans will have someONE to watch in the playoffs.
about 1 month ago
Favre-bashing article. Not like we see one every week from someone who hates Favre.
Does anyone believe Chad Pennington would have came back to win last night's game?
So let's get this straight: If the Jets lose, it is Favre's fault. If they win, it isn't because of Favre but a number of exceptional players on the team.
Get lost.
from about 1 month ago
Not really. If Kobe Bryant wins a game with 15 points, what do I say about that?
The Patriots had no Ty Warren or Adalius Thomas. You played against 5 backups, and scored 10 points in the last 36 minutes of the game ( One on a turnover, the other on an OT coin flip ).
The Jets are an awesome team, but a greater sample size ( such as the season ) will determine my analysis, not a game against a team who lost 4 players on defense.
about 1 month ago
I should add that the title of this article is incredibly stupid. Without Favre would the Jets be more than 7-3? Would they be undefeated with Pennington still as QB?
You hate Favre. We get it. Why would you admit to having a poster of a dejected Favre after losing to Atlanta in the playoffs? You are not unlike the drunk in the alley, sleeping in their own urine and vomit while saying they are not a drunk. Denial is a wonderful thing, isn't it? Just say it "I hate Favre" and "I love Tom Brady and want to make sweet manlove to him."
from about 1 month ago
I like the way you said I love Tom Brady. I haven't written one article on the Patriots ( and only one on the Celtics ).
You assume I hate Favre, but in actuality, I love the Jets. I use to like them when Parcells had transformed their team into a dominant AFC force.
I like Favre, but he is old, and he is playing like Chad Pennington ( 9 yards per COMPLETION, with most yards coming after the catch ). He had 7-8 passes behind the line of scrimmage. Pennington could've done that.
You can say that I am a drunk in an alleyway, but it is the real drunk who posts up that I hate Favre and telling me to admit something that isn't true.
Incredibly stupid article. But Favre played like Pennington. You paid too much money for the same player.
about 1 month ago
hey knucklehead, did you watch favre lead the jets down the field vs the Pats when it mattered most? To argue that favre "hinders" the Jets is ridiculous. Get a clue.
from about 1 month ago
Hey knucklehead, did you notice he had one throw passed 15 yards, and the rest were 5 yard passes with yards after the catch?
Hey knucklehead, do you know he almost lost to the Chiefs on two interceptions ( one went back for a touchdown) and had to save himself with an incredible play by Coles.
Hey kid showbiz, how many losses came from Favre doing the WRONG thing in the 4th. 3. With Pennington, they probably would've beaten the Patriots twice.
But now we're tied, and have an easier schedule. Get a clue.
from about 1 month ago
1-1. It took a coin flip to beat a team missing 4 starters on defense and 3 on offense. Good luck facing healthy teams.
about 1 month ago
First of all, any reference to FOXSPORT has to be suspect. They have been an anti-Favre media outlet. So much so, it would seem they are in the back pockets of Ted Thompson (Packers' GM).
"Fox Sports' Steve Czaban"
Right now the Jets are sitting with the #2 seed in the AFC. Lots of other teams have opened their pocket books like the Raiders and Vikings.
Last night at the Patriots, the Jets offense scored whenever they HAD to. They opened the game with a TD drive. Favre completed 3 third down passes to keep it going. In overtime, Favre completed on 3rd and 15 to start the drive. In the 4th quarter with the game tied, the Jets drove the field with a long drive to go up by a TD.
The Jets have HEART this year. Ask the Green Bay Packers what that can do. They brought in a QB who is statistically the same or better than Favre, but have lost close games consistently. And the Packers had the #2 seed in the NFC last year. Right now they are #11 and a long way from a playoff spot.
from about 1 month ago
The Packers are another story.
They had the easiest schedule last year, and were 1-3 against the top 10 defenses in the NFL.
Their other 2 losses came at the hands of the Bears, who had a great defense but were muddled with injuries all off-season.
I mentioned above that Brett Favre brings a leadership factor that cannot be underestimated. But this is the ONLY game which Favre made it happen for this team against another good team. Out of his 260+ yards, 100+ were yards after the catch ( see: Thomas Jones, Leon Washington, Justin Keller's stats. ). Even with 260, he averaged 9 yards a pass. Just 9.
The offense is a west coast hybrid, which Favre should control easily. BUT, Pennington was reamed by fans for trying to conduct the same sequences. My point is that they have the talent to do this without Favre.
If they got him for his leadership and his ability to make those clutch drives, so be it. But, looking at every game, and not just one game ( with the Patriots missing FOUR starters on defense, and Mayo missing two drives ), I can't see how effective Favre would be over Pennington in this type of offense.
I'm banking on him doing clutch games like this. But to be honest, he hasn't had this type of game in a long time. It would suck that you find out this might be his last one. The Giants game last year showed that he does have trouble when the pressure mounts in the pocket.
I don't foresee a defense shutting down that O-Line, but like the Patriots were shown last year, are you going to take a chance on Favre's arm 20 yards down-field when he is scrambling? Both Brady and Favre found out that it won't get you anywhere. Mangini knows that, and you saw Favre made 0, ZERO, throws 20 yards deep. zero.
My whole point is, if you have a QB that is going to just throw to his backs and tight ends all game, why didn't you just keep Pennington?
ALSO, people think I'm bashing Favre, but I think the Jets front office picked up a great team, and Mangini has utilized his personnel effectively. The Favre-mania overlooks the accomplishments of the team itself.
And Fox Sports has the most in-depth coverage and analysis around. The talking heads ( like Czaban ) are give-or-take, but I'll take any station that has Chris Landry talking football and Seth Everett talking baseball everyday anyday.
from about 1 month ago
The Packers were bound for a letdown this year. Their schedule was harder, and their division wasn't laying down to get beat up by the Green.
Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, or even Tom Brady, wouldn't have enough to keep that team winning 11 games, let alone 13.
about 1 month ago
Sorry 3-1 against top defenses. But they scored 17 points in two wins, and they scored 35 on the Giants in the early weeks ( which showed the Giants didn't have it together. ). A decent team, but an easy schedule.
about 1 month ago
7 and 3... Gee Favre does it again. Why all the hate for Favre?
No I think your thinking is totally flawed. I followed the Pack for 30 years and Favre can make a 5 win team into a 10 win team. He did it several times. Did you realize that Favre in Green Bay for 16 years NEVER had a Hall of Fame wide receiver. NEVER not one season.
Have you watched the Pack this year? The team has lost its confidence publicly yeah Aaron is their guy, but I bet they secretly wish Favre was there and not Rodgers. Nearly all the same players from last year and they are not confident with Rodgers. If Favre was in Green Bay this year their record would be better than 4 and 5.
Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy jumped on the train to no where and are going to have some sleepless nights ahead of them. They deserve it. Oh but Favre retired... yeah but he didn't die. I bet the Packers don't make the playoffs and Lovie Smith will be smiling. Last year early on the Packers had no running game it was in the bottom 3 yet started 3-0 against previous years playoff teams. How did they do it? Brett Favre's arm. NO running game. Yet still won.
You need to rethink your hate for Favre. You are dead wrong.
from about 1 month ago
There is no hate. Just because you think someone isn't right for a system, doesn't mean you hate them. I didn't like the Paul Pierce /Ricky Davis system because they both played the same offensive schemes, but I never HATED Pierce or Davis just because I criticize them.
I think people just don't like Favre criticism, and assume any of it means they hate Favre. I essentially said his gunslinging tactics don't work for the Jets offense, and they turned him into Chad Pennington ( How many 20+ without yards after catch did he have against the Pats?)
He never had a hall of fame receiver, but are you going to sit here and say that Antonio Freeman was mediocre? Bubba Franks? Ahman Green? Bill Schroeder? Desmond Howard? Donald Driver? Mark Chmura? Dorsey Levens? Javon Walker ( when he tried )? Terry Glenn ( one season )?
He always had the weapons, so stop it with the "he never had anyone around him " bs. The Packers were going to be a shitty team regardless of QB because they don't have that "good" team, and their schedule was pretty easy last year ( considering the good teams they beat like the Giants were flailing in the beginning of the season.
Come back to me with some real analysis, and not a knee-jerk crybaby whine about the Packers losing and the Jets winning.
The Jets win because they have a good team, and Favre will make them better by NOT THROWING TOO MUCH. What he did against the Patriots, is the ONLY way he is going to win.
If you see him launch long passes again, consider your Super Bowl hopes gone. Since they are leashing him, they might as well kept Pennington, who would've made the exact same passes.
about 1 month ago
RedSox, though i appreciate your passion, man, the more you comment and try to defend those comments, the worse you sound. the Jets are 7-3 and beat the Patriots. Period. last year the Jets beat the Patriots and Pennington wasn't playing. funny how when it's the Patriots, it's a different story
anyone dissing the Jets' win over NE last night because NE was missing starters is, in fact, dissing the Patriots players who played their asses off. i'm quite confident they wouldn't appreciate any comments along the lines of , "well, the Jets didn't play the NE starters therefore its an asterisk next to the win. the Pats team on the field played a great game and almost won. NO ONE can say (and I'm not saying you said this) that the Patriots would've faired better had Brady or any one of the other starters been in that game. you just can't. and if you do, gimme your Magic 8 Ball cause i've got a few questions i'd like to ask it.
be real, brother.
from about 1 month ago
The more you comment, the WORSE YOU SOUND.
I never said the Jets sucked. Go and read my article again. I also picked the Jets to go 11-5 this year. I know the records. I know the Jets beat the Patriots and Pennington wasn't playing.
That shows that the Jets actually HAD TALENT to win, and you said the total opposite above ( the Jets sucked last year, 4-12, bla bla bla ).
The sad part is is that I don't diss the Jets. I like them because I always have been a Parcells/Belichick fan, so I do remember the days when they had a great team in the late 90's.
I don't have a magic ball; I analyzed that the Jets are the same team without him. I'm dissing Favre, and right now, you could be 9-1, not 7-3.
The more you comment, the more I'm striking you down. Come back when you actually point out something I actually said.
about 1 month ago
RedSox- Quite simply, you're an idiot and an inaccurate one at that. You seem to omit the 46 yard pass to Cotchery that set-up the Jets 2nd TD of the game. In most math circles 46>20. Since your argument is based solely on "what if" scenarios and excuses due to injuries, Favre should have ended the game with at least 3 TD's when considering Keller's easy drop in the 1st Quarter. Did you notice that the Patriots only got into the game when Mangini decided to go away from allowing Favre to pick out his receivers, and predictably ran up the middle? Cassell played fine, but giving the guy credit for that final drive when the Jets Prevent Defense let the Pats walk down the field is a bit of a joke. He made a tough throw to Moss, I'll give him that, but since you like to lay credit to the speciality positions, Moss was the reason for the TD.
Now simpleton, the only thing that matters in football is the scoreboard. I know you like to conjecture and base your arguments using crutches like injuries and what not, but please bare with me for a second while I provide you with facts.
2007-2008 Packers with Brett Favre 13-3
2008-2009 Packers with Aaron Rodgers 4-5
2007-2008 Jets with Chad Pennington 4-12
2008-2009 Jets with Brett Favre 7-3
A logical person could deduct that the Team's with Brett Favre have better records, and thus are better off with him as their leader. Period. Simple argument.
Now, since you already mentioned how much respect you have for Parcells, according to your rationale what Pennington is doing in Miami really is just a product of the success and system that Parcells would have set-up with any QB, so due to your reliance on "What If" scenarios, Pennington's success is irrelavant.
The Packers were one OT win from the Superbowl....they had pretty much all the players intact except one obvious QB. If they lose this week, they have doubled their loss total from last year. Of the Packers wins, only 1 comes against a Team with a winning record (Indy) and when they played, Indy was a .500 team, so basically an Aaron Rodgers led Packers team has not beaten a winning team. That is a problem that won't go away, and the unholy trinity of Ted Thompson, Mark Murphy, and Mike McCarthy will be held responsible.
The Jets are now sitting in 1st place with a 7-3 record. The smear campaign from Foxsports, and idiots like yourself haven't dauted Favre and the Jets. They don't care, as they know that the only thing that matters is the scoreboard. Figure it out kiddo, it's all pretty simple.
about 1 month ago
A more logical position would be:
2007 Packers: Easy Schedule, lost to dominant defensive team ( Giants )
2008 Packers: Hard Schedule, lose to dominant defensive teams.
2007 Jets: 4-12
2008 Jets: $50 million in free agency minus Favre.
Second, he had one deep pass the ENTIRE GAME. 1. Just one. It set up a score, but is that how you believe Favre is going to win it? And why would you say Parcell's system works, but Mangini's system needs Favre.
Second, I never gave Matt Cassell accolades for scoring in the drive. You just made up stupid comments that I have never said. If you have girl problems at home with FoxSports, go write them an email:
http://msn.foxsports.com/feedback
But if you want to comment on my post, read the goddamn article first, then actually analyze what I said. The Jets SHOULD BE 11-5. But they would've done it without Favre. Not because he is bad, but they make him throw like Pennington.
When he gets more late drives like against the Pats, I'll change my mind. Until then, the time bomb is ticking, and I will write back to you when it explodes. If they leash favre, they make the Super Bowl. If they let him loose, you are rolling the dice on two types of games:
Game 1 vs. Pats: 19-10
Game 2 vs. Pats: 34-31
You tell me if you want that "coin flip" in a meaningful playoff game. I'm set on winning the game with Thomas Jones.
about 1 month ago
Guys, I'm having fun. I actually enjoy the reaction.
But none of you are touching me. You give great points, but then you give hollow analysis ( the team's 4-12 now they're 7-3 ) without any regard to how insane the Jets went in free agency. The fact that you put so much on favre hurts because you are pretty much overlooking what Tannenbaum and Mangini are accomplishing.
You also protect Favre so much, and I don't think he's a bad QB. I never said anything bad about him or his career. I think his style, especially with the slashing routes of their WRs, will hurt this team, and it has showed in many games this season.
I didn't even tell Mangini not to leash Favre. Mangini did it himself. If the coach doesn't want him flinging the ball down field, it only proves my point of what they want Favre to provide: Game winning drives.
Thats it. The rest of his style can ruin the team.
Also, read what I am SAYING. I never said the Jets sucked. If you have problems with other meat-heads or Fox making fun of your team, go bitch to them. But don't push me as a martyr, when all I really said in this article was that the Jets are a great team without Favre.
I don't know how anyone can get mad at me complimenting a rival football team, but your comments only prove your pride, and simultaneously your ignorant zeal to justify a quarterback over the system.
I'm loving this. Anyone else care to join?
about 1 month ago
I love that as readers we'll never know which Red Sox maniac is going to respond to a post....the one who gets his panties in a bunch if you post a comment that upends his point of view, or the one that instantly then apologizes for his rash and quick judgement statements. The two of you must have the darndest time chosing what pants to wear on any given day.
You chose to write the article and base all of your arguments on "What if" scenarios, so when people slam you with simple arguments refuting your dream sequences you should just take it vs. offerring more "What if" scenairos. The fact of the matter is the Jets are 7-3 and in first place. Last year they were in the toliet bowl. It took a few weeks for Favre and the rest of the offense to get into synch, but as evidenced by the last two weeks the offense has a few options. Jets fans realize that Favre isn't the sole reason why their team has success, but they also don't discount his experience and winning tradition and embrace him as their leader. As a lifetime Packer fan they will see throughout the rest of the year that relying on Favre can be good or bad, but the good far out weighs the down moments and they will continue to win more games than lose.
A logical person recognizes it takes time to learn a complex NFL offense and some of the early hiccups and interceptions can be attributed to this difficult transition. It's not an excuse, as Favre's career has shown he would have thrown interceptions anyways, but the amount that he currently has is a direct result of the timing of the trade. It's remarkable that the Jets are 7-3, and to think they could do so with Pennington is being naive. Ask any Jets fan if they would like Pennington back...all you will here are the chirps from crickets in response.
As for Mangini....if you watched the games, you would realize that there are new wrinkles in their offense due to Brett's emmergence at QB. The Wide-Out screens, and quick slants were Packer gold which Brett has brought to New York. I think Pennington deserves credit for what is happening in Miami, I had only brought it up due to your simplistic notion that QB's are products of their system, vrs. the vice versa. Certain guys like Brett bring a bigger dimension to the game, and its obvious in the two differnt paths that the Jets and Packers have taken this year.
BTW...with Pennington, the Jets would not be in first place. I concede that they would likely be doing better than last year, but not by much. Conversly, the Packers would be in 1st place if Favre were still there, and possibly undefeated.
"But none of you are touching me".....good grief, what a homo
from about 1 month ago
You aren't touching me because the last three weeks Favre has thrown 2 passes for 20+ yards.
I do see the system "working" not because I think the system is the best for the Jets dominance, but that it works in their favor for Brett not to throw.
I don't apologize; you can only pretend what "could have" been. Why do you think people predict, and there are previews to games, or people gamble? Going against my article because it contains a "what if" pretense is the same as getting mad at someone for predicting an outcome to a game. If everyone had to analyze everything based on the present, no sports analysis outlet would exist.
You can't get mad at me with a "what if" and then say " with Pennington, the Jets would not be in first place". You then do the same thing I am doing.
the Jets were 4-12 last year, but were also 10-6 the year before, and have barely lost to the Patriots in all the Mangini games that were played. Brett Favre is a winner, and I don't down that, but this is the AFC East in its prime. This isn't a division where you can make too many mistakes and expect to be on top.
The Wide-Out screens were a product of Charlie Weiss's offense that Mangini brought to the Jets ( I hope you've been watching the games because they have been very apparent for 3 years pre-Favre ), and Favre's quick slants were mostly to his tight-ends, with second options going to his running back ( which you can see by the amount of receptions made by both positions the last decade: Bubba Franks, Ahman Green, Mark Chmura, Dorsey Levens ).
The quick-slants to wide-outs is a false statement, just on the fact that the west coast offense Holmgren had in Green Bay instilled more to the backs and tight-ends than the receivers up the middle. Just common sense would tell you that Javon Walker, Donald Driver, and Antonio Freeman were not slot receivers to make quick slants toward the middle.
Your what ifs involved more faith than my analysis, and therefore, I humbly return your homo trophy you try to so desperately give me. Good luck watching football.
from about 1 month ago
Nesta makes it to the 2 yard line and... He stopped short! He had what it took, but his inexperience watching football showed a lot of holes in his statements.
Lets' go to commercial, and see what Nesta will come up with next time...
about 1 month ago
At least you didn't let me down with your two predictably frazzled retorts. My main question though is, what do teams get if they "barely" lose games like you keep saying? Do they get great big "Almost Victory" hugs from their wives and families? It doesn't matter how close a team can get, if they don't get the W's it doesn't mean a thing. A guy named Lombardi has a few quotes that I won't waste on you regarding the difference between 1st and 2nd place, but I believe you are perceptive enough to get the point.
Last year the Jets couldn't win with Pennington. Last year the Packers won most of their games with Brett Favre. Favre led the team to a 7-1 record to start last year without the help of a consistant running game, but you simply want to dismiss those accomplishments by saying it was against a weak record, or weak teams. Three eventual play-off participants in Washington, San Diego, and the Giants were some of those "weak" teams that Favre led the Pack over in the first part of the season. Ryan Grant came on strong the second half of the season which only opened up additional plays down the field for Favre and the receivers. That is the way a successful team operates offensively, and the Jets seem to be on the cusp of achieving a system that will be able to rely both the running game and downfield strikes. I think it's obvious from the Buffalo and New England games that Favre was brought on to manage games, but to also pick up necessary and difficult yardage on 3rd downs. I don't care to waste my time to check all the 3rd down conversions/yardage that Favre completed against New England on Thursday, but from the naked eye it seemed like everytime they needed it. Favre has the experience and intangilbes to couple the game management with downfield strikes....don't be surprised to see Mangini open up the offense a bit during the last part of the season. Seriously Redsox Maniac, the Jets QB and offense were always going to be a work in progress this year, and sitting at 7-3, Jets Brass is enjoying the success and their gamble. Yes other players have been instrumental in the Jets success thus far, but anyone who knows the game of football knows that the recognition and blame for a teams success or failure starts with the most visible guy on the field: the Quarterback.
I love the fact that a young arrogant fellah like yourself prides himself on taking pot shots at people who took (wasted) the time to respond to your post, but I also love the humor in your simplistic prognostications. I've been a shareholder and season ticket holder of the Packers for the last 40 years, so you could say I have experience watching and seeing football. I am guilty of not watching the Jets over the last few years, or even this year, because they are a waste of time. The point of me commenting on your article is to illustrate how the fickle minded blowhard fan like yourself doesn't have the first clue when it comes to leadership and the intangibles that certain players bring to their teams. You mention Mark Chmura and Bubba Franks as TE targets for Brett who caught the slant, but I guess you forgot about Robert Brooks, Donald Driver (yes, he caught tons of slants), Keith Jackson, Bill Schroder...ect... pretty much everyone caught the slant from Favre except Rison, Sharpe, and Freeman, but I'm sure they brought in a few zingers of their own. I don't rely on "What Ifs"..I watch the games when it comes to my Packers.
I'm going to take a little literary licensing here, and liken you to Woody Harelson's character in "White Man Can't Jump." Wesley snipes character when desribing how white people can't "hear" Jimmi Hendrix, but they can "listen"....well, you seem to "watch" football, but you don't "see" it. Maybe you just need some goggles...I'm sure you already walk around with a helmut.
from about 1 month ago
I'm sorry, but how simplistic is my argument if you already said what I have concluded in my article. You said Mangini used Favre to come in and "manage" the game.
Why would anyone pay Favre to come in and manage a game? Anyone can manage the game if the right weapons and system is in place. 2nd, the Jets are in first place for ( let me look at my watch ) four days, and you beat a Patriots team with four rookies in the backfield.
I completely understand your stance, but you have to give more detail of why Favre is better for this team if they aren't going to use him much, and that they barely win ( or lose badly ) when he throws for 30 passes. I completely understand that this offense needs time, but are you seriously going to use the Patriots game as a microcosm for Favre's greatness of the future when he has only two great games to show for it.
As for the slants, You can use Driver, but Brooks, Jackson, and Schroeder never caught more than 60 or 70 with Favre. And my point of "mostly" still holds true because he made a fortune with those plays off his backs.
For 40 years of experience, I can hearken your rants to a die-hard Favre fan that can't hear criticism from the young whipper-snappers that can "see" football. Its funny because at the end of the day, my argument is simplistic; Brett Favre is overrated. Why pay him so much if he is going to do the exact same things Pennington did? The only reason they sat him last year was because of his injuries and there need to look for a future in the event they weren't going with Pen for 2008. In addition to rookies Revis and Stuckey, and Thomas Jones coming into the mix, the team had immense talent, but no direction.
The Jets had regained their direction this year with the signings/trades of Damien Woody, Alan Faneca, Kris Jenkins, Bubba Franks, and Calvin Pace, and the draft additions of Justin Keller and Noah Lowery. To tell me that this team didn't have a plan for AFC dominance before Favre is ludacris. And to keep on using 4-12 and call my argument simplistic saddens me for an intelligent 40 year-long fan of the Packers.
In your 40 years of experience, all you can come up with is shallow evidence of a Green Bay offense created by Mike Holmgren and directed by Favre, a Jets team with a 7-3 record, losses to better teams, and a hall-of-fame QB relegated to "managing" a game, and snipes against analysis that only stated that merit should be passed on to the system, and Favre isn't as good as he used to be.
Perhaps I'll put my helmet on, as to block of the old man drool coming out of your mouth during these tirades. Nurse... this guy needs a tissue.
about 1 month ago
The funny part is the only evidence that you have for your swiss cheese argument are the 2 losses that the Jets had when Favre threw 30+ passes. Wow, incredible sample size to make your astute analysis. The facts are that the Jets are winning with Brett Favre on their team, and are projected to be Play-Off bound by most of the experts. Even with the 50 million spending spree in free agents prior to Favre, not too many experts would go out on a limb and project the Jets into the Post-Season. It seemed like a laughable topic at the beginning of the year, but now reality has set in that these NY clowns are for real. The fact that Favre was one of the top rated passers last year, and he dismantled the Patriots throwing to 7 different receivers last week shows that he still has the ability to make the plays in the air. One of the (many) problems with young guys like you Redsox is that you are impatient. Favre started the season with 4 weeks to learn the Play-Book, and the Jets offense seems to be picking up momentum the last few weeks. The Jets were always going to be a run first offense with Magini, but Favre has started to show why the Jets took a gamble on him. You want to say that Favre hinders their chances because of 2 games while the team was still trying to figure out their identity, but now that they are getting consistancy from their QB, you say he hinders their chances of winning....funny how they sit at 7-3 even though in your words he is holding them back or hindering them.
from about 1 month ago
I promise you, they will make the playoffs, but it won't be on his accolades.
I am very patient. See you in January.
about 1 month ago
"This happens to me as well, and hope someone shoots me down if I offer to slanted an ideology on a specific topic. "
That is your quote, and the only reason why I keep going back and forth with you. We'll see in January.
from about 1 month ago
I don't have an ideology. I have no ill will towards Favre. I do look for the future, because Matt Cassel might be in Favre's spot in 2009, and I will do the same to the Patriots.
When Favre leads you into the playoffs with his amazing ability, let me know. Other than that, it Thomas Jones's show. And that is what I've been saying in the entire article.
about 1 month ago
FYI....The JETS blow, and Favre can't lead my team anywhere as he no longer is a part of the Packer organization. You would know that if you paid any attention to what I have said, but you would rather continue to print Favre bashing garble and call it a day. Re-Read all of your posts and think again about your view regarding Favre, because any intelligent person can see that you are simply bashing the guy.
from about 1 month ago
I have paid attention to what you said, but I really pay attention to a dominant team with an old QB that two of his interception became GW drives for opposing teams, and three more came at the hands of a team that is 1-9, which nearly cost the team the game.
I wrote this because I know the bandwagon gets heavier as the Jets move up, but I believe Favre won't get in their way. When he does, I don't know. I just haven't seen greatness, FAVRE GREATNESS, since he's worn that uniform.
I probably will be wrong, but before the Patriots game, I just didn't see it.
about 1 month ago
Hey I agree with Redsox. Favre is hurting the Jets. He is washed up, a has been and a never will be again. Favre this season is the worst QB in the NFL. The chane the Jets have a making the playoffs is to cut Favre and pick up a little girl.
about 1 month ago
the jets had pennington and didn't do squat.
from about 1 month ago
a 10-6 record and losing to a better team in the playoffs don't count as squat.
Did you read my article?
about 1 month ago
my apologies,
ok he did do squat but the fact Pennington hasn't done it consistently for more than 1 season i would
still take Favre over him.
from about 1 month ago
I'd take Favre over Pennington in certain situations, but they been having him play conservative most of the time.
They're paying a lot of money to tell Favre to hold it. Since they are gambling for the Superbowl, I see their point, but thought they were better with the offseasons acquisitions before him.
about 1 month ago
RedSock- The crow is slowly simmering in the oven, so feel free to eat some whenever you are ready.....
I can't wait to hear the intelligent response now after Favre threw the ball 32 times (your recipe for the Jets failure) and winning on the road against an undefeated team. I'm sure you will cling to something. So if you are still keeping track, you stated that the Jets are likely to lose if Favre throws more than 30+ passes, but correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they 5-2 in such games?
Can you not admit that this Jets team is starting to gel? Defense looks tough, running game is consistant, and Favre is slinging as evidenced by his TD to Coles.... any questions?
from about 1 month ago
My question has already been answered:
The team is starting to gel. Favre threw 30+ times with an average of 7 yards per pass, along with 40 yards after catch ( which would make him throw an average of 6 yards per pass ).
The team is good without Favre, by evidenced of the great plays of Jones and Washington. Which, by the way, I posted in my article. Along with the Jets D.
But you didn't read my article about the Jets going 11-5 before Favre even came to the team. What you are telling me is what I already know and have been writing for the last four months.
My MVP is Thomas Jones and Kris Jenkins. The team is starting to gel; you are telling me what I have already been saying.
from about 1 month ago
I won't cling to the 30+ passes because they are playing a Weiss-oriented offense, where a pass is essentially a run ( can you really call a 10 foot screen pass a pass? ).
I will cling that when they let him do his thing, they lose. And now they have him on a leash. Which is why they will win a lot of games: Favre is on a leash. Come back when he throws a 30 yard pass ( and not a 5 yard pass that a Wide gains 30 after the catch. ) and then we'll talk.
He did it in the game on Sunday, and got picked. It does prove my point.
about 1 month ago
Nevermind, you are an idiot incapable of admitting when he is wrong. I pity you. Some friends of mine said that there are some lower level management jobs available in Green Bay, care to answer the call? You would fit in quit nicely with the unholy trinity of dishonorable irishmen in Murphy, McCarthy, and Thompson. Accountability for your actions (in your case statements) isn't required, so you should be successful.
By the way, do you want 2 or 3 helpings of crow?.....scoreboard doesn't lie and its 8-3 and counting.....
about 1 month ago
Lastly, I don't want to call you an outright liar regarding your statement claiming you predicted an 11-5 record for the Jets prior to Favre's arrival, but I haven't found any articles that you wrote that states that, and since you make excuses for every wrong statement you've made on this particular blog I hesitate to take your word for it. Maybe you jotted it down on a napkin and just forgot to post it.....
from about 1 month ago
I like the way the title has "New Jets Supremacy".
You think someone would say "Supremacy" and think the team sucked? Give me an answer to that one.
I can't be wrong, because I said the Jets were "Supreme" in the first sentence of the entire post.
I specifically posted "conservative offense", which is what the Jets are doing.
I would love to eat crow, but you're hogging all the bird with your replies. Give me a logical reason why you think I am a Jets hater and simultaneously write "Supremacy" in an article. I'll wait.
from about 1 month ago
I'm also waiting for the wrong statements. Liar, wrong statements. Send me video of:
A: Favre winning without Thomas Jones or Leon Washington.
B: Favre throwing a 30 yard pass downfield.
C: An offense surrounding Favre.
Until then, you haven't defeated anything I have said. You are just another Favre maniac. Sad to say, I don't have my prediction, so you got me there. I guess writing the word "Supremacy" means you think the Jets suck. I hear you. Usually when I see supremacy in articles, I think that the writer talks about the team sucking.
I guess I'll see you tomorrow. This article has stayed the same, so feel free to tell me I think the Jets suck or that the Jets are meshing when I already mentioned they were good. Feel free to write about Favre throwing 7 yards per attempt ( 16th in the league, especially crazy considering his two stat-filled games this year ).
Feel free to tell me something I already knew, and most likely wrote about. Feel free to mention Favre's stats in a Weiss-oriented system ( don't worry; I think Matt Cassel and Pennington are getting too many accolades for running already well-oiled offenses ).
Feel free to say I make excuses, when I only regurgitate what I placed in my article. Feel free to be NESTA, the redundant ranter who can't seem to get over someone seeing greatness beyond one player. Good luck Nesta. You are truly losing this game, but I very so appreciate your effort.